Suggest a new feature for org-remember-templates

Suggest a new feature for org-remember-templates

[Leo]

Hi All,

I just move my remember setting for planner to org. I've to say
remember is perfectly integrated with org.

After playing with the %-escapes, I found it useful to make them
support certain modifiers.

For now, I can think of one modifier (say "^") that will make
%-escapes interactive i.e. %^T should ask the user to specify a time
and %^n should ask for the name. This is useful for a template like
(?d "* TODO %?\n DEADLINE: %T\n %i\n\n %a") where almost 100% current
time is not a good default.

What do people think? Any other suggestions?

-- 
Leo <sdl.web AT gmail.com>                         (GPG Key: 9283AA3F)

Re: Suggest a new feature for org-remember-templates

[Bastien]

Leo <sdl.web@gmail.com> writes:

> After playing with the %-escapes, I found it useful to make them
> support certain modifiers.
>
> What do people think? Any other suggestions?

Your email made me play with org-remember-templates a bit and they're
quite powerful.  What you propose makes perfect sense to me.

For now i'm just using `remember' to take some random notes, those
that I don't need to link to any project immediately.  If we had the
interactive `remember' you describe, i think it will become a core
fonction that will help adding TODO items to *any* org files on the
fly.  Could be great!

-- 
Bastien

Re: Suggest a new feature for org-remember-templates

[Leo]

On 2007-01-15, Bastien said:

> Leo <sdl.web@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> After playing with the %-escapes, I found it useful to make them
>> support certain modifiers.
>>
>> What do people think? Any other suggestions?
>
> Your email made me play with org-remember-templates a bit and they're
> quite powerful.  What you propose makes perfect sense to me.
>
> For now i'm just using `remember' to take some random notes, those
> that I don't need to link to any project immediately.  If we had the
> interactive `remember' you describe, i think it will become a core
> fonction that will help adding TODO items to *any* org files on the
> fly.  Could be great!

This is actually the feature make me make up my mind to migrate from
planner to org.

But the feature I propose is not important anymore. Since the
*remember* buffer is in org-mode, we can use the normal org key
bindings to set timestamps.

However I still feel there is room for improvement to make remember
the input engine for GTD etc. ;)

-- 
Leo <sdl.web AT gmail.com>                         (GPG Key: 9283AA3F)

Re: Re: Suggest a new feature for org-remember-templates

[Eddward DeVilla]

To be honest, what you are suggesting sounds interesting, but I don't
know remember well enough to know if it does what it sounds like.

It would be nice to have a 'hot-key' interface to generate a project
tree.  I've looked a little at form and template packages for emacs to
see if any look like they'd let me easily create a template to
generate a basic "Project Tree" for my org files.

For now, I have a template in each org file that I cut and paste and
then fill in when I need to 'create' a new project.  At some point I'd
like to come up with a command that would prompt me for the heading,
an initial status/description, a category and other option info
(deadline, priority, todo-state) and use that to insert a project tree
into the correct org file (I have one per category) with the supplied
heading, the description under the status subheading I maintain with
the current data (inactive) before it, and with the other info where I
want it.  I admit this is very specific to how I do things and I
haven't read GTD so it probably isn't how others would want it.

It sounds like what you are suggesting might be able to so some of
that, though I think what I'm suggesting might be over the top or an
abuse of remember.

I guess I'm looking at various trees as data types in a duck-typing
sense.  (If it's in the right place and has the right shape, it's a
duck.)  It would be nice to easily define constructors for those
types.  It's a style thing for me, but I'd also like to be able to
describe my ducks in my org files rather than my .emacs files since
that's where I line up my ducks.  I don't know how to do it yet, I'm
not sure how to generalize it and given my skill with copy and yank I
can't say it essential.  Just a nice idea.

Edd

On 1/15/07, Leo <sdl.web@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2007-01-15, Bastien said:
>
> > Leo <sdl.web@gmail.com> writes:
> >
> >> After playing with the %-escapes, I found it useful to make them
> >> support certain modifiers.
> >>
> >> What do people think? Any other suggestions?
> >
> > Your email made me play with org-remember-templates a bit and they're
> > quite powerful.  What you propose makes perfect sense to me.
> >
> > For now i'm just using `remember' to take some random notes, those
> > that I don't need to link to any project immediately.  If we had the
> > interactive `remember' you describe, i think it will become a core
> > fonction that will help adding TODO items to *any* org files on the
> > fly.  Could be great!
>
> This is actually the feature make me make up my mind to migrate from
> planner to org.
>
> But the feature I propose is not important anymore. Since the
> *remember* buffer is in org-mode, we can use the normal org key
> bindings to set timestamps.
>
> However I still feel there is room for improvement to make remember
> the input engine for GTD etc. ;)
>
> --
> Leo <sdl.web AT gmail.com>                         (GPG Key: 9283AA3F)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>

Re: Re: Suggest a new feature for org-remember-templates

[Bastien]

"Eddward DeVilla" <eddward@gmail.com> writes:

> It would be nice to have a 'hot-key' interface to generate a project
> tree.  I've looked a little at form and template packages for emacs
> to see if any look like they'd let me easily create a template to
> generate a basic "Project Tree" for my org files.

Can you copy-and-paste an example of a Project Tree ?

-- 
Bastien

Re: Suggest a new feature for org-remember-templates

[Michael Olson]

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Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes:

> Your email made me play with org-remember-templates a bit and they're
> quite powerful.  What you propose makes perfect sense to me.
>
> For now i'm just using `remember' to take some random notes, those
> that I don't need to link to any project immediately.  If we had the
> interactive `remember' you describe, i think it will become a core
> fonction that will help adding TODO items to *any* org files on the
> fly.  Could be great!

In case any Org developers are interested in contributing enhancements
upstream to Remember:

The Remember project has a shared Arch archive, in case anyone would
like to add improvements to it.  There hasn't been much activity
lately, but we'd welcome new features, options, and improvements.

See http://www.mwolson.org/projects/DevelopingWithGna.html#sec3 for
details on how to check out the code with developer access (available
upon joining the remember-el project at
https://gna.org/projects/remember-el/), or
http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/RememberMode#RememberMode5 for
how to check out the project as a non-developer.

-- 
Michael Olson -- FSF Associate Member #652 -- http://www.mwolson.org/
Interests: Lisp, text markup, protocols -- Jabber: mwolson_at_hcoop.net
  /` |\ | | | Projects: Emacs, Muse, ERC, EMMS, Planner, ErBot, DVC
 |_] | \| |_| Reclaim your digital rights by eliminating DRM.
      See http://www.defectivebydesign.org/what_is_drm for details.

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Re: Re: Suggest a new feature for org-remember-templates

[Carsten Dominik]

On Jan 15, 2007, at 20:04, Leo wrote:

>
> But the feature I propose is not important anymore. Since the
> *remember* buffer is in org-mode, we can use the normal org key
> bindings to set timestamps.

I still think this is a good idea.  Being prompted is probably more
efficient than having to walk through the template and insert things
yourself.  The best way is probably to already display the template,
and then walk through it to prompt for information in the right 
sequence.

>
> However I still feel there is room for improvement to make remember
> the input engine for GTD etc. ;)

Like?

- Carsten

Re: Re: Suggest a new feature for org-remember-templates

[Carsten Dominik]

On Jan 16, 2007, at 2:21, Michael Olson wrote:

> Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes:
>
>> Your email made me play with org-remember-templates a bit and they're
>> quite powerful.  What you propose makes perfect sense to me.
>>
>> For now i'm just using `remember' to take some random notes, those
>> that I don't need to link to any project immediately.  If we had the
>> interactive `remember' you describe, i think it will become a core
>> fonction that will help adding TODO items to *any* org files on the
>> fly.  Could be great!
>
> In case any Org developers are interested in contributing enhancements
> upstream to Remember:

Good initiative,

I think something like templates could also be implemented and useful 
directly
as part of remember, along with the possibility to make the target file
depend on the template.

- Carsten

Re: Suggest a new feature for org-remember-templates

[Leo]

On 2007-01-16, Carsten Dominik said:

>> However I still feel there is room for improvement to make remember
>> the input engine for GTD etc. ;)
>
> Like?

Like quickly move the note in *remember* buffer to the right substree,
category etc. But I have not come up with how to do it.

Another improvement is, providing key-bindings to cycling through the
templates when in *remember* buffer. Because I sometimes select the
wrong template and sometimes change my mind when editing the notes.
We can put something before the note:

## lines start with "##" will be ignored
## Use `C-c up/down' to select the next template etc etc ...

-- 
Leo <sdl.web AT gmail.com>                         (GPG Key: 9283AA3F)

Re: Suggest a new feature for org-remember-templates

[Leo]

On 2007-01-16, Carsten Dominik said:

>> In case any Org developers are interested in contributing
>> enhancements upstream to Remember:
>
> Good initiative,
>
> I think something like templates could also be implemented and
> useful directly as part of remember, along with the possibility to
> make the target file depend on the template.
>
> - Carsten

Another minor but useful improvement is DWIM i.e. when a region is
active it is pretty clear I want to include that region and it should
not require a `C-u'.

-- 
Leo <sdl.web AT gmail.com>                         (GPG Key: 9283AA3F)

Re: Re: Suggest a new feature for org-remember-templates

[Eddward DeVilla]

On 1/15/07, Bastien <bzg@altern.org> wrote:
> "Eddward DeVilla" <eddward@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > It would be nice to have a 'hot-key' interface to generate a project
> > tree.  I've looked a little at form and template packages for emacs
> > to see if any look like they'd let me easily create a template to
> > generate a basic "Project Tree" for my org files.
>
> Can you copy-and-paste an example of a Project Tree ?

Ya.  I suppose it would have been useful to do that.  :-)  Sorry.
Most of my org files have a *projects heading with a template like the
following.

----------------------------------------------------------------
*** COMMENT Template

***** Quick Info
      |-----------------+---|
      | Problem Report  |   |
      | Release         |   |
      | estimate        |   |
      |-----------------+---|
      | Begin Code      |   |
      | Base Code Done  |   |
      | Extra Code Done |   |
      | Testing Done    |   |
      |-----------------+---|
      | Code Level      |   |
      | Build ENV       |   |
      |-----------------+---|

***** Status Log

***** [/] Investigate
      - [] Question 1

***** [/] Base Work
      - [ ] step 1

***** [/] Extra Credit Work
      - [*] step 1

***** Verification
      - [0/0] Base test set
        - [ ] Test 1
--------------------------------------------

I copy and paste it in below the template, remove the COMMENT keyword
and give a real title and set tags as needed.

The Quick info is stuff I tend to have to look at or cut-n-paste
often.  I fill it in as I can and I use Inactive timestamps in it.

The Status Log is just a plain list of information.  Each entry starts
with a '-' and an inactive timestamp.  It serves as a project diary.
I usually add an entry when I create the project.

Investigate is a checklist tree of things I need to know or verify.
Answer can go in thee tree or in the status log depending on how long
winded it is.

Base Work is a micro-managed list of things that need to get done to
complete the project.  It can grow as the investigation progresses.

Extra Credit Work are things that can be done 'while I'm in the area'
or touch a piece of code.  Targets of opportunity so to speak.  They
aren't essential and should not hold up completion.

Verification is testing.  I organize my test cases here and track
their progress (and sometime regress).

Sorry if that was too much information.  For the purpose of the
templates, I'd love to be able to enter the Title, tags & TODO state
as well as the first status entry.  If I could add Quick info too,
that would be great.  I doubt it would be appropriate to fill in
Investigate, Base/Extra Work or Verification yet, but I would like to
say if the project needed each of those sections.  Some projects are
simple enough that they only need Base Work.  Some projects are
investigate only.  Some projects (aka problems) are too hot to have a
drawn out investigation or extra tag-a-long work.  It would be
important to have it land in the correct category/file.  For me, I'd
like it to be inserted under '* Projects'.

Anyhow, this isn't make or break for me, but it would be useful.  It
is very specific to how I work and I'm not sure how to do it or make
it general enough for others.  What Leo is saying about using remember
to prompt with a template sounds interesting.  I may have to put table
formulas aside for a bit and look at remember first.

Edd

Re: Re: Suggest a new feature for org-remember-templates

[Bastien]

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"Eddward DeVilla" <eddward@gmail.com> writes:

> Ya.  I suppose it would have been useful to do that.  :-) Sorry.
> Most of my org files have a *projects heading with a template like
> the following.

I think this template is very specific to the way you organize your
project.  Maybe you could write your own function like this :

(defun my-insert-org-template ()
   "Insert an interactive template."
   (interactive)
   (let ((comment (read-from-minibuffer "COMMENT: ")))
     (insert 
   "*** " comment " Template

***** Quick Info
     |-----------------+---|
     | Problem Report  |   |
     | Release         |   |
     | estimate        |   |
     |-----------------+---|
     | Begin Code      |   |
     | Base Code Done  |   |
     | Extra Code Done |   |
     | Testing Done    |   |
     |-----------------+---|
     | Code Level      |   |
     | Build ENV       |   |
     |-----------------+---|

***** Status Log

***** [/] Investigate
     - [] Question 1

***** [/] Base Work
     - [ ] step 1

***** [/] Extra Credit Work
     - [*] step 1

***** Verification
     - [0/0] Base test set
       - [ ] Test 1")))

You can interactively prompt for other strings than "COMMENT" and
insert them into the template.  This is just to give you the idea.

Help this helps,

-- 
Bastien

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Re: Re: Suggest a new feature for org-remember-templates

[Eddward DeVilla]

On 1/17/07, Bastien <bzg@altern.org> wrote:
> "Eddward DeVilla" <eddward@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Ya.  I suppose it would have been useful to do that.  :-) Sorry.
> > Most of my org files have a *projects heading with a template like
> > the following.
>
> I think this template is very specific to the way you organize your
> project.  Maybe you could write your own function like this :
>
> [[:snip code:]]

It is *very* specific to what I do.  I was hoping there was a canned
template package to do this.  On the other hand, what you've posted is
very easy to follow and falls in place with where I am in _Practical
Common Lisp_ .  It's past time I become more fluent in elisp.

Thanks for the simple example.  I should be able to do a lot with that
technique.

Edd

Re: Suggest a new feature for org-remember-templates

[Kai Großjohann]

For inserting templates, you may wish to investigate skeleton.el.  It
comes with Emacs.  One needs to twist one's mind somewhat to
understand how to use it, but you can look at the twisting to be
a chance to excercise your mind to keep it fit :-)

Kai

OT: org-remember-templates, skeleton & tempo

[Eric J Haywiser]

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On Thu, 18 Jan 2007, Kai [utf-8] GroÃ~_johann wrote:

> For inserting templates, you may wish to investigate skeleton.el.

There is also tempo.el which may prove equally useful.
I don't have experience with either.  I would be curious
to hear thoughts, comparision, contrast from an expert in both
modes before deciding in which one to invest learning time.

Also,

http://www.sunsite.ualberta.ca/Documentation/Gnu/emacs-20.7/html_chapter/emacs_37.html

had this to say:

`skeleton.el', implementing a concise language for writing statement skeletons
'tempo.el', providing support for easy insertion of boilerplate text and other common constructions

-Eric

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Re: OT: org-remember-templates, skeleton & tempo

[Pete Phillips]

>>>>> "Eric" == Eric J Haywiser <ejh1@MIT.EDU> writes:


    Eric> There is also tempo.el which may prove equally useful.  I
    Eric> don't have experience with either.  I would be curious to hear
    Eric> thoughts, comparision, contrast from an expert in both modes
    Eric> before deciding in which one to invest learning time.

I can't let the discussion continue without mentioning my own favourite
- dmacro.

We have been using this to provide templates for project reports (in
troff), as well as boilerplate for emails since 1992 (well, that's the
earliest RCS date I can find). Easy to make the templates, and it can
prompt you for variables, anmd insert timestamps etc. Great package. 

See 

	http://linuxgazette.net/issue39/marsden.html

For some comparisons of template type packages.

I now use dmacro for templates I use in org mode.

regards
Pete

TEMPLATE packages for Emacs (was: Suggest a new feature for org-remember-templates)

[Leo]

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On 2007-01-17, Kai Großjohann said:
> For inserting templates, you may wish to investigate skeleton.el.
> It comes with Emacs.  One needs to twist one's mind somewhat to
> understand how to use it, but you can look at the twisting to be a
> chance to excercise your mind to keep it fit :-)

On 2007-01-18, Eric J Haywiser said:
> There is also tempo.el which may prove equally useful.  I don't have
> experience with either.  I would be curious to hear thoughts,
> comparision, contrast from an expert in both modes before deciding
> in which one to invest learning time.

On 2007-01-18, Pete Phillips said:
> I can't let the discussion continue without mentioning my own favourite
> - dmacro.
>
> We have been using this to provide templates for project reports (in
> troff), as well as boilerplate for emails since 1992 (well, that's the
> earliest RCS date I can find). Easy to make the templates, and it can
> prompt you for variables, anmd insert timestamps etc. Great package. 
>
> See 
>
> 	http://linuxgazette.net/issue39/marsden.html
>
> For some comparisons of template type packages.
>
> I now use dmacro for templates I use in org mode.

To add to the interesting list, there is snippet.el which is
intensively used by emacs-rails. The nice thing about it is it
highlights the fields and uses TAB to go though all fields to make
changes.


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-- 
Leo <sdl.web AT gmail.com>                         (GPG Key: 9283AA3F)

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