From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John J Foerch Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Outline mode Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:06:15 -0400 Message-ID: <877imy4l20.fsf@earthlink.net> References: <87odgnbr9q.fsf@earthlink.net> <87fy1zb77e.fsf@earthlink.net> <871wdicmx9.fsf@earthlink.net> <59224.128.165.123.18.1188946347.squirrel@webmail.lanl.gov> <873axu6kho.fsf@earthlink.net> <49806.128.165.0.81.1188954688.squirrel@webmail.lanl.gov> <874pi8q4r1.fsf@earthlink.net> <32870.128.165.123.18.1189022170.squirrel@webmail.lanl.gov> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1189484483 17397 80.91.229.12 (11 Sep 2007 04:21:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 04:21:23 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 11 14:21:08 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IV4Qa-00012a-J8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Sep 2007 14:01:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IUwwD-0007fA-W9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Sep 2007 00:01:22 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IUwvL-0006nH-60 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Sep 2007 00:00:27 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IUwvK-0006mi-8g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Sep 2007 00:00:26 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IUwvJ-0006mb-V7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Sep 2007 00:00:26 -0400 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IUwvJ-0002sg-9T for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Sep 2007 00:00:25 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IUm9g-0006tW-Jh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2007 18:30:32 +0200 Original-Received: from dialup-4.159.113.151.dial1.chicago1.level3.net ([4.159.113.151]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2007 18:30:32 +0200 Original-Received: from jjfoerch by dialup-4.159.113.151.dial1.chicago1.level3.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2007 18:30:32 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 48 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup-4.159.113.151.dial1.chicago1.level3.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.1.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:mNtGhCxzmt/k0pcjx06lebUSJis= X-UiO-SPF-Received: Received-SPF: pass (mail-mx3.uio.no: domain of sea.gmane.org designates 80.91.229.5 as permitted sender) client-ip=80.91.229.5; envelope-from=news@sea.gmane.org; helo=sea.gmane.org; X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-3.0, required=12.0, autolearn=disabled, UIO_RECEIVED_FROM_NORWAY=-3) X-UiO-Scanned: 195C871EA363B627B36283C71F67C870F9FF3C40 X-UiO-SPAM-Test: remote_host: 80.91.229.5 spam_score: -29 maxlevel 200 minaction 2 bait 0 mail/h: 35 total 415 max/h 35 blacklist 0 greylist 0 ratelimit 0 X-Detected-Kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:78559 Archived-At: "Davis Herring" writes: > > There's nothing preventing them from going there; with the "new" C-e they > just do C-n C-b to go to that (visible) newline. With the > front-advance/rear-advance overlays, typing before that last newline will > add to the (invisible) body invisibly, as it should. > > If (with all my proposals) you go to the end of the header (via C-e or > whatever else that doesn't put you -past- the invisible newline that ends > it), you are then truly on the header and can edit however you like. > Pressing C-b once would put you before the last normal character in the > heading (the 'y' of "body" in the example), and self-inserting would add > visible characters immediately after that character. So (unless you do > want to insert in the middle of the header) no arrowing is required, and > no text is invisible that shouldn't be. > > I know nothing about org-mode, but again, there are no funny surprises, > aside from the bit where the cursor is rendered after the ellipsis. > You're still "conceptually" in front of the ellipsis, in that inserted > text appears in front of it and one C-b moves you away from the ellipsis > entirely. And I think that derived modes should be able to tell (unless > they're being too clever) that you're on the header: you are after all > before the header's newline. > > Part of the reason I am attempting to prove the utility of the > C-e/advancing-overlay solution is that I fear such a feature would be > prohibitively expensive/complex. > > Davis > Hi Davis, Making the overlay rear-advance and front-advance sounds like a good thing to do because that will solve some of the problem of the inconsistency of inserting characters at the end of the header. I still would not change any movement commands though. If I came across a situation where I could move point to some character by moving backwards, but not forward, I would find that to be very strange and would report it as a bug. I would rather leave the quirk in outline-mode and have some hope that I or someone else would figure out how to add the feature to the ellipsis mechanism that I described. Also, recall that I did implement a separate ellipsis mechanism in elisp in the patch I posted, and I'm happy to keep using that until the ellipsis code in emacs' C code can provide the behavior. --John