From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Manoj Srivastava Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.linux.debian.devel.emacsen Subject: Re: Debian's idiosyncratic complexification of Emacs Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 12:44:17 -0500 Organization: Manoj Srivastava's Home Message-ID: <877ibb89e6.fsf@anzu.internal.golden-gryphon.com> References: <4eb0089f0807111345h13eccdds9b2cf43370b94074@mail.gmail.com> <4eb0089f0807121340x5e26f6dbve03ef50b238f3a3a@mail.gmail.com> <87k5fph5rh.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <20080713214648.GB1076@muc.de> <487A783B.7060603@gmail.com> <20080713232635.GD1076@muc.de> <85od51id2t.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <20080714204242.GH6711@volo.donarmstrong.com> <20080714223059.GG3445@muc.de> <20080715013845.GX3675@rzlab.ucr.edu> <877ibl8vjs.fsf@red-bean.com> <87lk01ij7f.fsf@anzu.internal.golden-gryphon.com> <87ljzvormp.fsf@red-bean.com> <87wsjdw5co.fsf@grepfind.mwolson.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1216921512 5431 80.91.229.12 (24 Jul 2008 17:45:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:45:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: debian-emacsen@lists.debian.org To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 24 19:46:01 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KM4t4-0002Wf-8W for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 19:45:58 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51868 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KM4sA-0004Ze-GZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 13:45:02 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KM4s5-0004Z7-2F for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 13:44:57 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KM4s3-0004YU-95 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 13:44:56 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=41370 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KM4s3-0004YQ-1l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 13:44:55 -0400 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2]:50027 helo=ciao.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KM4s2-0000dH-HL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 13:44:55 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1KM4ry-0003of-PX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:44:51 +0000 Original-Received: from tiamat.golden-gryphon.com ([204.117.95.118]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:44:50 +0000 Original-Received: from srivasta by tiamat.golden-gryphon.com with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:44:50 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Lines: 67 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: tiamat.golden-gryphon.com User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACYAAAAwCAMAAABKbPgaAAAAM1BMVEUAAADIjH/0rp1KPz79 0b+ic2nlpJc2Ly2AY17VlYb4uqi2gHQXFBN2WVXgno5iT02Xa2Nx+jaIAAACVElEQVQ4jeWU23bj IAxFLUAggQX6/6+dI9LGTpo+9mlYiXNhc3TnOP50naZE0tqvgEk+soutnNfQ8yPTWMTENhNrjI+Y +N7POVt8tAzpn2vJlsmttbyfrdkP7hx5iezteGzsbOts7xT+tC1mcG+LtRP2X/16bEQExuyx1uZW vscrAWUT8aE0aDBeBuw8nS5u4WgWyDCllOZUBeyWgbWbGrBsTDpTx0qpphlcYPcgJLvBXFClPMg5 6WH2JidLIAaDF5aAed7uPTH4bjw0bZvfajp2tHc1F+cBm+Vr9YomGSwNhbmcczYEWUu5MBpYvCLV F+ZIKwQfYB+CBXnIRQFvIRhK6l96PemsFLEPFxi+MPxiTYH0Ave1InPsIYes3NJb42ytBSmmysyj lIQYHJm6Im1WbQ0kWMesKFRFPKTDzJ3GhWUn2KWKEkWlKthoACLm2eWJQQh2qKbAUgQxa+8TVjn1 aySm8656ookCfCc5TRzvnZ6YOu3NpHg+uR5YuRkNF/b5IHq5Y7Ve6c2+sR4hqIZ3+5DCt3ukh8Eo vFIXVJxqfMdbkd/BF3YaQkB/2RIUHPMS7RLVAHefrYzWZVQ/ei4peBsROFLi90ltQyvF5I05t4Zs L4C9DODJ2AZCUf8UitGjCIdfx15QQkfZibTOGT3edxns5fY6F2rstKcTwiiaJnQwvYkdzTlaTqNH IkSmGdLrON45tGsMNDoSYr4bxH5emHEFaoFjKBahHXFXfLx9cR9p6ejJXihuxPz57gWHZkWovbPl 9gsU8eImtBi++3D+f+sfT/Mg79fyEz8AAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-URL: http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ Mail-Copies-To: never X-Face: #q.#]5@vq!Jz+E0t_/; Y^gTjR\T^"B'fbeuVGiyKrvbfKJl!^e|e:iu(kJ6c|QYB57LP*|t &YlP~HF/=h:GA6o6W@I#deQL-%#.6]!z:6Cj0kd#4]>*D, |0djf'CVlXkI, >aV4\}?d_KEqsN{Nnt7 78"OsbQ["56/!nisvyB/uA5Q.{)gm6?q.j71ww.>b9b]-sG8zNt%KkIa>xWg&1VcjZk[hBQ>]j~`Wq Xl,y1a!(>6`UM{~'X[Y_,Bv+}=L\SS*mA8=s;!=O`ja|@PEzb&i0}Qp,`Z\:6:OmRi* Cancel-Lock: sha1:/ubugEi6TwXq15JjT8tN5q241Iw= X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:101411 gmane.linux.debian.devel.emacsen:2462 Archived-At: On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:49:59 -0400, Stefan Monnier said: > It strikes me that Debian's Emacsen seem to not be plain enough. I > mean, Debian seems to change Emacs's startup.el even tho there's no > need for it. Instead of changing startup.el to (load > "debian-startup") and call some magic function in it, it'd be much > better to leave Emacs's own startup code unchanged and simply provide > a site-start.el that loads debian-startup as well as > /etc/emacs/site-start.el and all the rest. Well, site-start.el was deemed to be for site specific stuff, and is shipped empty by the vendor (i.e., Debian). The Studd in startup.el is only to cater to the vendor changes for third party Elisp packages, and is not really a site specific change. This means that the load-path is customized even when --no-site-file is specified. > I can't see why this can't work just a well as the current setup, with > the advantage of minimizing the difference between a plain Emacs and a > Debian Emacs (and clearly documenting this difference since it's kept > in a user-visible file rather than stashed in an internal source file > only available if you install the emacs-el package). Isn't there some issue with order of loading there? By modifying startup.el, changes are made that allow setting load-path before _any_ action is taken, namely, language setting, window system initialization, and option processing. So the two things are not equivalent. manoj Here is the full extent of the change in startup.el --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- @@ -381,6 +381,10 @@ from being initialized." (defvar normal-top-level-add-subdirs-inode-list nil) +(defconst debian-emacs-flavor 'emacs-snapshot + "A symbol representing the particular debian flavor of emacs running. +Something like 'emacs20, 'xemacs20, etc.") + (defvar no-blinking-cursor nil) (defvar default-frame-background-mode) @@ -953,8 +957,13 @@ opening the first frame (e.g. open a connection to an X server).") ;; should check init-file-user instead, since that is already set. ;; See cus-edit.el for an example. (if site-run-file - (load site-run-file t t)) - + (progn + ;; Load all the debian package snippets. + ;; It's in here because we want -q to kill it too. + (if (load "debian-startup" t t nil) + (debian-startup debian-emacs-flavor)) + ;; Now the normal site file... + (load site-run-file t t nil))) ;; Sites should not disable this. Only individuals should disable ;; the startup screen. (setq inhibit-startup-screen nil) --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- -- Forsan et haec olim meminisse juvabit. Manoj Srivastava 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C