Differences html/pdf

Differences html/pdf

[andrea Crotti]

I normally prefer to export to pdf but I see that there are
some differences.

I added
#+OPTIONS: toc:nil \n:nil todo:nil
and

toc is not exported in both, todo are anyway always exported
and newline are kept only in html.

In the latex version they're not exported for some reasons...

Should I set some nice secret variable?

Re: Differences html/pdf

[Carsten Dominik]

On Oct 28, 2009, at 3:16 PM, andrea Crotti wrote:

> I normally prefer to export to pdf but I see that there are
> some differences.
>
> I added
> #+OPTIONS: toc:nil \n:nil todo:nil
> and
>
> toc is not exported in both, todo are anyway always exported

This is about the TODO keywords, and they are stripped in both

> and newline are kept only in html.

>
> In the latex version they're not exported for some reasons...

That is correct, we have not implemented keeping all line breaks in  
LaTeX.
Too hard, unfortunately.

- Carsten

Re: Differences html/pdf

[Bastien]

Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:

>> In the latex version they're not exported for some reasons...
>
> That is correct, we have not implemented keeping all line breaks in
> LaTeX.

I've searched around a bit, and to my big surprise, I cannot find a
LaTeX package preserving line breaks.  I understand such a function
doesn't come along nicely with the general LaTeX philosophy, but it
should be possible after all...

Did anyone already tried to find such a package ?

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Differences html/pdf

[Thomas S. Dye]

On Oct 28, 2009, at 6:26 AM, Bastien wrote:

> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>> In the latex version they're not exported for some reasons...
>>
>> That is correct, we have not implemented keeping all line breaks in
>> LaTeX.
>
> I've searched around a bit, and to my big surprise, I cannot find a
> LaTeX package preserving line breaks.  I understand such a function
> doesn't come along nicely with the general LaTeX philosophy, but it
> should be possible after all...
>
> Did anyone already tried to find such a package ?
>
> -- 
> Bastien


Aloha Bastien,

Plain LaTeX has \linebreak and \nolinebreak, that might be appropriate.

Tom

Re: Differences html/pdf

[Nick Dokos]

Bastien <bastienguerry@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:
> 
> >> In the latex version they're not exported for some reasons...
> >
> > That is correct, we have not implemented keeping all line breaks in
> > LaTeX.
> 
> I've searched around a bit, and to my big surprise, I cannot find a
> LaTeX package preserving line breaks.  I understand such a function
> doesn't come along nicely with the general LaTeX philosophy, but it
> should be possible after all...
> 
> Did anyone already tried to find such a package ?
> 

Not a package, but there is \obeylines (plain TeX) that will
preserve line breaks - e.g. Knuth[1] suggests that it be used for
typesetting poetry:

{\obeylines\smallskip
Roses are red,
\quad Violets are blue;
Rhymes can be typeset
\quad with boxes and glue.
\smallskip}

It apparently works by pretending that the newline is a \par token.

Nick

[1] Knuth, "The TeXbook", p. 94

Re: Differences html/pdf

[Carsten Dominik]

On Oct 28, 2009, at 11:23 PM, Nick Dokos wrote:

> Bastien <bastienguerry@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>>> In the latex version they're not exported for some reasons...
>>>
>>> That is correct, we have not implemented keeping all line breaks in
>>> LaTeX.
>>
>> I've searched around a bit, and to my big surprise, I cannot find a
>> LaTeX package preserving line breaks.  I understand such a function
>> doesn't come along nicely with the general LaTeX philosophy, but it
>> should be possible after all...
>>
>> Did anyone already tried to find such a package ?
>>
>
> Not a package, but there is \obeylines (plain TeX) that will
> preserve line breaks - e.g. Knuth[1] suggests that it be used for
> typesetting poetry:
>
> {\obeylines\smallskip
> Roses are red,
> \quad Violets are blue;
> Rhymes can be typeset
> \quad with boxes and glue.
> \smallskip}
>
> It apparently works by pretending that the newline is a \par token.

OK, this is pretty good, and I have added it to be inserted
as a consequence of setting org-export-preserve-breaks.  But I
believe in complex documents there might be problems, so I would
be interested in test results.  Only then we will decide if this
should stay in.

- Carsten

Re: Differences html/pdf

[andrea Crotti]

Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik <at> gmail.com> writes:

> 
> 
> On Oct 28, 2009, at 11:23 PM, Nick Dokos wrote:
> 
> > Bastien <bastienguerry <at> googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> OK, this is pretty good, and I have added it to be inserted
> as a consequence of setting org-export-preserve-breaks.  But I
> believe in complex documents there might be problems, so I would
> be interested in test results.  Only then we will decide if this
> should stay in.
> 
> - Carsten
> 

Very nice, is it in the last version of org-mode?
Because without a working export to pdf it's very problematic to use org-mode
for writing for example scientific documents (or the thesis).

Re: Re: Differences html/pdf

[Carsten Dominik]

On Oct 31, 2009, at 5:57 PM, andrea Crotti wrote:

> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 28, 2009, at 11:23 PM, Nick Dokos wrote:
>>
>>> Bastien <bastienguerry <at> googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> OK, this is pretty good, and I have added it to be inserted
>> as a consequence of setting org-export-preserve-breaks.  But I
>> believe in complex documents there might be problems, so I would
>> be interested in test results.  Only then we will decide if this
>> should stay in.
>>
>> - Carsten
>>
>
> Very nice, is it in the last version of org-mode?

It is in the git repo, but not yet in a release.
It may be in 6.33, but only if no problems arise from this change - I am
not at all sure about this.

- Carsten

Re: Differences html/pdf

[andrea Crotti]

Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik <at> gmail.com> writes:


> It is in the git repo, but not yet in a release.
> It may be in 6.33, but only if no problems arise from this change - I am
> not at all sure about this.
> 
> - Carsten

It's not also so easy to test I guess...
Maybe giving some very complicated org-files, see automatically
if the pdf is generated and check some of them if they really are
as they are.

How would you test otherwise?

Re: Re: Differences html/pdf

[Carsten Dominik]

On Nov 1, 2009, at 8:01 PM, andrea Crotti wrote:

> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
>
>> It is in the git repo, but not yet in a release.
>> It may be in 6.33, but only if no problems arise from this change -  
>> I am
>> not at all sure about this.
>>
>> - Carsten
>
> It's not also so easy to test I guess...
> Maybe giving some very complicated org-files, see automatically
> if the pdf is generated and check some of them if they really are
> as they are.

Yes, take a big complicated Org file, maybe something in WOrg, and  
export
it with this option.  Then check if everything looks good.  In  
particular tables, list,
verbatim examples, etc

- Carsten

>
> How would you test otherwise?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

- Carsten

Re: Differences html/pdf

[andrea]

Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:

> On Nov 1, 2009, at 8:01 PM, andrea Crotti wrote:
>
> Yes, take a big complicated Org file, maybe something in WOrg, and
> export
> it with this option.  Then check if everything looks good.  In
> particular tables, list,
> verbatim examples, etc
>
> - Carsten

After a while I write again here, I've tried to export to pdf with \n:t
quite a few times, and I've only found one problem

I don't know how I can show you but in short lists inside a block get a
wrong indentation.
Instead of being more indented they are less indented and go toward the
left border.

It's definitely a problem of \obeylines because with \n:nil it works
fine.
I've pasted here some latex code, try to generate a pdf and see section
2.a to see what I mean.

http://gist.github.com/248980

In the meanwhile it would be maybe good to give a message to the user
who wants to convert to pdf using \n:t, "check carefully the result" for
example.

Thanks
Andrea

Re: Differences html/pdf

[andrea Crotti]

Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik <at> gmail.com> writes:

> 
> 
> On Oct 28, 2009, at 3:16 PM, andrea Crotti wrote:
> 
> 
> This is about the TODO keywords, and they are stripped in both

Mm I don't understand...
How should I disable "todo" exporting then?
How I wrote it doesn't work, but from the manual it should be correct...

> 
> > and newline are kept only in html.
> 
> >
> > In the latex version they're not exported for some reasons...
> 
> That is correct, we have not implemented keeping all line breaks in  
> LaTeX.
> Too hard, unfortunately.

I see..
But would not be enough to do a simple replace
\n -> \newline from the org file to the latex source file?

Re: Re: Differences html/pdf

[Nick Dokos]

andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0@gmail.com> wrote:

> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik <at> gmail.com> writes:
> > On Oct 28, 2009, at 3:16 PM, andrea Crotti wrote:
> > ...
> > > In the latex version they're not exported for some reasons...
> > 
> > That is correct, we have not implemented keeping all line breaks in  
> > LaTeX.
> > Too hard, unfortunately.
> 
> I see..
> But would not be enough to do a simple replace
> \n -> \newline from the org file to the latex source file?
> 

No - it's much more complicated than that, partly because bare newlines
in LaTeX are completely ignored (except that two newlines in a row
signal end of paragraph - assuming of course that you are in paragraph
mode...), partly because the constructs that try to emulate newline
behavior (\\, \linebreak, \newline) are very context-dependent.

For a flavor of some of the complications, see this thread:

   http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/17333

particularly Bastien's summary of a reply that Sebastien Vauban
got in the fr.comp.text.tex newsgroup. Even that, complicated
as it is, is not complete.

Nick