From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Karl Fogel Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Basic Bazaar guide for Emacs hackers. Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 00:03:59 -0600 Message-ID: <877ht8eegg.fsf@red-bean.com> References: <87skbzblp5.fsf@telefonica.net> <87y6log42q.fsf@red-bean.com> <87y6lo8zgi.fsf@telefonica.net> <87638sy5ab.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87tywc8u7t.fsf@telefonica.net> Reply-To: Karl Fogel NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1259561065 10813 80.91.229.12 (30 Nov 2009 06:04:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 06:04:25 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 30 07:04:18 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1NEzMv-000550-Ff for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 07:04:17 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43646 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NEzMv-0001Rt-9a for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 01:04:17 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NEzMl-0001Ra-81 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 01:04:07 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NEzMg-0001R5-Ly for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 01:04:06 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=43997 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NEzMg-0001Qz-Ec for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 01:04:02 -0500 Original-Received: from sanpietro.red-bean.com ([66.146.206.141]:58439) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NEzMf-00048x-W9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 01:04:02 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35212 helo=kfogel-work ident=kfogel) by sanpietro.red-bean.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NEzMe-0000fw-Co; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 00:04:00 -0600 In-Reply-To: <87tywc8u7t.fsf@telefonica.net> (=?utf-8?Q?=22=C3=93scar?= Fuentes"'s message of "Mon, 30 Nov 2009 06:20:06 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:117951 Archived-At: =C3=93scar Fuentes writes: >> > I have no problem at all deleting the document if it damages the >> > transition to Bazaar. But so far, your reasons for doing it are not >> > convincing at all to me and just demonstrates a misunderstanding of >> > the demography of Emacs and their current VC practices. >> >> On the other hand, how many VCS transitions have you managed for >> Emacs-sized projects? I've done two so far. I can say from >> experience the cost of support is not polynomial in extra workflows >> during the transition. > > Okay. Your experience trumps over my reasoning. Page deleted. > > But from now on I don't feel obliged to help supporting those who think > that they have better things to do than learning a new way of doing > something that worked fine for the last 20 years :-) Hmm. I think we have been editing simultaneously! Here's what I just did: * Removed all the alternate scenarios and stacked-branches talk from http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/BzrForEmacsDevs, leaving just the one workflow for regular contributors. I hope this simplifies the page a lot, and makes it clear that it is intended to give a single, recommended workflow. * For those alternate scenarios, we now refer out to a new page: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/BzrForEmacsCasualDevs, which strongly recommends people to use the regular workflow, but describes a couple of alternate ways for those who really want that. Because it still makes it clear that we recommend the "regular contributor" workflow, I think this will not lead to confusion. * On http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/BzrQuickStartForEmacsDevs, I've moved the recommendation to try the "regular contributor" workflow (i.e., BzrForEmacsDevs) to the top, and strengthened it. Oscar, I hope that was okay, and that you feel the wording there is accurate. If not, please tweak. I did my work in the wiki instead of the mailing list only because that seemed the easiest way to communicate my edits, not because I meant them to be the final word. I think our documentation is mostly consistent and non-confusing now. We have three pages, but two of them point clearly to BzrForEmacsDevs as the recommended workflow, and that page refers out to the other two where appropriate. We can also manually point a person to either of those other two if and when that person balks at using BzrForEmacsDevs (for lack of time or whatever reason). So when we do the switchover, if we point to http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/BzrForEmacsDevs as the place to start, that should work, and will nudge people toward adopting a dVCS way of working from the start. But those who don't want that have other options prepared for them. Does this sound sane? Continued improvements to any of the docs welcome, of course. -Karl