From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Efforts to attract more users? Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 23:26:48 +0900 Message-ID: <877hl6jbh3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1278599552 19018 80.91.229.12 (8 Jul 2010 14:32:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 14:32:32 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Adrian Robert Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 08 16:32:31 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OWs9O-0006HZ-R0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 16:32:31 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52388 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OWs9O-00081j-8C for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 10:32:30 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=46718 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OWs9J-00081T-1x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 10:32:26 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OWs9I-00027b-2Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 10:32:24 -0400 Original-Received: from mtps02.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.224]:56394) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OWs9H-000274-Nz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 10:32:24 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mtps02.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F7F2820D; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 23:32:20 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 639CE1A263F; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 23:26:48 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM 8.0.12-devo-585 under 21.5 (beta29) "garbanzo" ed3b274cc037 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:126910 Archived-At: Adrian Robert writes: > For that matter, why is VIM popular? I've never seen how the > weird, line-oriented, moded editing style has anything to compare > in ease of use or simplicitly to learn with emacs, yet developer > after developer uses it as their "second choice or remote" editor > -- while considering emacs "too hard" or "too complicated". (?) I've never heard "too hard" or "too complicated". What I hear a lot is that Emacsen take too long to start, or at least they did when those guys started using vi(m). OTOH, most of the folks I know who use vi don't use vim, they use nvi or elvis or something like that. The other thing a lot of people complain about is Emacs regexps (why, I'm not sure, they're mostly the same as vim's!), and the fact that there's no regexp search on a short key sequence. Yes, I know about C-u C-s; the point is that they don't find out until well after they've chosen a different editor. I think an incremental re-search with pcre would be a killer feature for newbies, but what do I know? ;-)