From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: binding ibuffer to C-x C-b by default Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 04:26:18 +0200 Message-ID: <877hht4dyt.fsf@telefonica.net> References: <8F022F3B2C5D4C2AB8A90CBDD7660FF1@us.oracle.com> <878w29a5ns.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87zkup8qaw.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87eic14gfs.fsf@telefonica.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1286504805 13371 80.91.229.12 (8 Oct 2010 02:26:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 02:26:45 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 08 04:26:44 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P42fS-0003NA-2y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 04:26:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57742 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1P42fR-0000ed-HD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2010 22:26:41 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=55385 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1P42fM-0000eW-Cc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2010 22:26:37 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1P42fI-00010x-7n for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2010 22:26:36 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:50447) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1P42fH-00010p-W8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2010 22:26:32 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P42fE-0003Ie-MF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 04:26:28 +0200 Original-Received: from 83.52.52.115 ([83.52.52.115]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 04:26:28 +0200 Original-Received: from ofv by 83.52.52.115 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 04:26:28 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 24 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 83.52.52.115 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:tW/nhOsUOymi6VwzoUc9cCW3/3I= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:131462 Archived-At: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen writes: >>> That's even more annoying. I hate having my cursor keys rebound to >>> surprising actions. >> >> What would be the unsurprising (and not useless) behavior here? > > Leaving the cursor keys to behave like normal, for instance? That would > be very unsurprising, but the usefulness is debatable. Sometimes > avoiding driving the user crazy is better than maximum usefulness. Moving the cursor left and right adds zero convenience while using ibuffer, it is wasting two keys. OTOH, by assigning them for jumping from one filtering group to another they become somewhat useful. I agree with you and Miles about the "surprisingness", but after two minutes of using ibuffer you are no longer surprised and later maybe you will appreciate having two extra keys that actually do some work. If you say that it not only is surprising but also annoying, I'll have to ask why you feel compelled to use left/right cursor movements on ibuffer. [Not really arguing with you. I'm trying to understand your reaction as a new ibuffer user who *also* is an experienced Emacs user.]