From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: user-controlled load-path extension: load-dir Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 14:46:59 -0600 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <877hce62bg.fsf@lifelogs.com> References: <87sjv6r38q.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87fwr264r6.fsf@lifelogs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1299271662 31019 80.91.229.12 (4 Mar 2011 20:47:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 20:47:42 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Mar 04 21:47:38 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PvbuS-0001il-3d for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 04 Mar 2011 21:47:36 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47903 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PvbuR-0007Yd-De for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 04 Mar 2011 15:47:35 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=50998 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PvbuH-0007XT-DN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Mar 2011 15:47:26 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PvbuF-00080c-Ph for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Mar 2011 15:47:24 -0500 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:37938) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PvbuF-00080S-BW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Mar 2011 15:47:23 -0500 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Pvbu5-0001K3-Ig for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Mar 2011 21:47:13 +0100 Original-Received: from 38.98.147.130 ([38.98.147.130]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 04 Mar 2011 21:47:13 +0100 Original-Received: from tzz by 38.98.147.130 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 04 Mar 2011 21:47:13 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 52 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.98.147.130 X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" User-Agent: Gnus/5.110014 (No Gnus v0.14) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:qTEiSTCjWww6nFQgYbwfjE1iVF8= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 80.91.229.12 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:136777 Archived-At: On Fri, 4 Mar 2011 12:25:22 -0800 Chad Brown wrote: CB> On Mar 4, 2011, at 11:54 AM, Ted Zlatanov wrote: >> >> The only reason I can think why this would not be acceptable is >> security. Otherwise this makes a lot of sense. >> >> For security I would propose checksumming any code in the load-dir and >> when new files are added or existing files are changed, query the user >> and store a file checksum in an alist. CB> This would have to happen the first time the user loaded any package, CB> or you have no security. If you do this the first time the user has CB> loaded any package, you have removed the `automatically' part of your CB> proposed system, which is the only real advantage it has. No. This query is only for Lisp code placed in the load-dir, not for packages in general. So you'd have the query as part of the el-get installation for instance and it wouldn't show up again. Compare with Mac OS X which does this for new applications you've downloaded from the net, alerting the very first time. CB> The only way your proposal seems (to me) to be an improvement is if we CB> train users to ignore the security questions and just always click on CB> I agree'. I hope you agree that that isn't a good idea. It's not a good idea, but it's not what I'm describing either. This query should show up very rarely, not all the time. It's meant for bootstrapping and for user code. If more than one file needs to be approved the user could use `Y' instead of `y', but in any case the query would be very rare. CB> Modern users have been trained to expect `Extensions' and `Add-Ons', CB> and don't seem to mind picking from a list (for things like FireFox, a CB> very large list with many overlapping choices). I think that's a CB> better user model to follow. Let's take an example. I have 10 pieces of code related to Emacs I want to load. Do I have to explicitly list them in my .emacs? Or can I just put them in a directory? The former is twice the work since I have to put them in some directory anyhow and puts the synchronization burden on me. So I can write some Lisp to do the discovery and load them automatically... which is what I'm offering for everyone's benefit (with some security features). I already do this for myself so I can propose a patch or a package quickly :) Package management is not what I'm proposing. The package manager *installation* would write a bootstrapper piece of code that has to be approved *once*. So while the load-dir is useful for installing el-get, I don't think el-get is the only reason to adopt it. Ted