From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: bidi-display-reordering is now non-nil by default Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 16:26:12 +0200 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <877h6y7chn.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <20110731.082721.451360942.wl@gnu.org> <20110731.085115.40009301.wl@gnu.org> <877h6yanje.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <878vre95g3.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87fwlm7fam.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87bowa7dza.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1312122394 3107 80.91.229.12 (31 Jul 2011 14:26:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 14:26:34 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jul 31 16:26:31 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QnWyL-0002zp-Nv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 31 Jul 2011 16:26:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51738 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QnWyL-00086J-17 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 31 Jul 2011 10:26:29 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:39311) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QnWyI-000861-5M for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 31 Jul 2011 10:26:26 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QnWyH-00057b-Bu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 31 Jul 2011 10:26:26 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:44449) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QnWyH-00057M-2Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 31 Jul 2011 10:26:25 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QnWyF-0002xv-Iw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 31 Jul 2011 16:26:23 +0200 Original-Received: from p508ed76e.dip.t-dialin.net ([80.142.215.110]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 31 Jul 2011 16:26:23 +0200 Original-Received: from dak by p508ed76e.dip.t-dialin.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 31 Jul 2011 16:26:23 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 30 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: p508ed76e.dip.t-dialin.net X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:wbMpY7ZMQ3EJtS5liH/yjf4XyPQ= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 80.91.229.12 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:142577 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: David Kastrup >> Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 15:54:01 +0200 >> >> I repeat: we are currently talking about the default of >> bidi-paragraph-direction which Eli argues should be nil in all modes >> (not just text-mode derived ones) that don't explicitly override it. > > I never said that. I just mentioned that as a possible solution. There were explicit plans discussed for making a buffer-name list where a nil default would get overriden. I consider that approach a non-starter. Or rather a non-finisher. >> There are many modes in Emacs that are doing some sort of tabular >> display, and flipping some vertical areas of the display horizontally >> around depending on the directionality of the first explicit character >> is going to make it _harder_, not easier for people trying to work with >> bidi content to get sensible results. > > Which modes are you talking about, specifically? dired, buffer-list, ses, lots of things. Basically almost everything that one likes using fixed-width fonts for (or which uses alignment properties in order to still look good with variable-pitch fonts) would likely get awkward with nil bidi-paragraph-direction. -- David Kastrup