From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [RFC] Micro-Init files in GNU ELPA Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2013 09:27:05 -0500 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <877gbj1ih2.fsf@flea.lifelogs.com> References: <8761ra7uq3.fsf@yandex.ru> <6c891113-22b0-4f3d-afc9-a735548efbbb@default> <87pppdu2tb.fsf_-_@gmail.com> <87li0039d0.fsf_-_@flea.lifelogs.com> <87a9gfx5um.fsf@gmail.com> Reply-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1386253591 7572 80.91.229.3 (5 Dec 2013 14:26:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 14:26:31 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 05 15:26:36 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VoZst-0003W8-Nn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 15:26:31 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53812 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VoZst-0008Vx-Am for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 09:26:31 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43613) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VoZsk-0008Va-SN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 09:26:28 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VoZse-0006cq-Vp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 09:26:22 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:55750) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VoZse-0006cj-Os for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 09:26:16 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VoZsa-0003Gp-Fm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 15:26:12 +0100 Original-Received: from c-98-229-61-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net ([98.229.61.72]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 15:26:12 +0100 Original-Received: from tzz by c-98-229-61-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 05 Dec 2013 15:26:12 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Lines: 45 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-98-229-61-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" Mail-Copies-To: never User-Agent: Gnus/5.130008 (Ma Gnus v0.8) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:GzY7I1On/+zpvGEPwEugvfUD394= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:166118 Archived-At: On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 10:16:25 +0530 Jambunathan K wrote: JK> Ted Zlatanov writes: >> I think all of these will cause problems >> >> - deprecation of variables >> - incompatibility of snippets >> - dependencies >> - loss of configurability and visibility >> - bug and maintenance burden on the submitters >> - documentation (or lack thereof) JK> My suggestion acknowledges the existing behaviour and merely JK> systematizes it. JK> My suggestion is a practical suggestion that need to be tested on the JK> field and dismissed with a theoretical object. Your suggestion is completely impractical if it doesn't consider the practical problems I listed. Saying "like GNU ELPA but for configuration snippets" is like saying "like a car but flying and for giraffes." Let's talk about how it will fly. >> I personally would not use or enjoy such a system. JK> That's precisely the point. You don't have to. JK> Installing packages from GNU ELPA is optional. Most intermediate to JK> expert Emacs users will not use such a system. JK> But new users will. I am intermediate-to-expert and I use and love the GNU ELPA. I'd love to see a new way to configure Emacs; I remember discussing Assistants on emacs-devel a while back. Assistants are interactive wizards, implemented by Lars years ago in Gnus but I have yet to figure out how to use them as a programmer. Assistants are much closer to what I'd like to see in Emacs for new users. Packages and configuration snippets are completely different things. If you want to argue that they can be treated the same way at the user level, take the practical concerns I listed into consideration. Those are concerns with any package system you present to a user. Ted