From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Karl Fogel Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Move to git is not imminent - esr is just tired of talking about it Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2014 14:06:27 -0600 Message-ID: <877gac27uk.fsf@floss.red-bean.com> References: <20140106165108.B6BF4380865@snark.thyrsus.com> <1389030588.11337.48.camel@Iris> <52CAF35F.9070005@dancol.org> Reply-To: Karl Fogel NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1389038808 30209 80.91.229.3 (6 Jan 2014 20:06:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 20:06:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Eric S. Raymond" , Jordi =?utf-8?Q?=5C1?= Hermoso , Daniel Colascione , Emacs developers To: Juanma Barranquero Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jan 06 21:06:54 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W0GRn-0004Nf-Ji for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 21:06:51 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37383 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0GRn-00032K-3I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 15:06:51 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57812) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0GRb-000321-LQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 15:06:48 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0GRT-0008T7-4M for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 15:06:39 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-ie0-x22d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22d]:45949) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0GRS-0008T2-SM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 15:06:31 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-ie0-f173.google.com with SMTP id to1so19170418ieb.4 for ; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 12:06:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:reply-to:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=jc1UBdnePqkaqPv+i7H4Qg9Q257664xGyalbyS8KCxg=; b=PCIX1aRRqjwFRSvfz6+g9T6qqBtRPaXrIdP9ObaW45Am489seOUnrQFAdGpG0yxeu4 /k9mmokzUMtd3nls9F8p6lBStt+42ouEatkgGnPmH7kMUvWrYUnwY9QUvq1VwsiXstJj v/jQDdFsleNwAJ6GdtdJgPK5aBYkL4VM2L0XTOz94sLUjmJKWoACC9pYo4Y3ip5ZPh19 kEt3wM5WdJm+4WgqldWMobq/9/UJBBy093RHOad/Xv2PyHc0t2Fjyofdjl9dIvEROebn AJL90OvY5bExfxmIMpjICrYO5GSGLRnzFJFsVqchQg/Ag5RUUqM5gGXjHOdIn3OQNGKQ g5SQ== X-Received: by 10.42.123.199 with SMTP id t7mr56345008icr.45.1389038789920; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 12:06:29 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from floss.red-bean.com (74-92-190-113-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [74.92.190.113]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id k6sm16522606igx.8.2014.01.06.12.06.28 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 06 Jan 2014 12:06:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: (Juanma Barranquero's message of "Mon, 6 Jan 2014 19:41:19 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22d X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:167511 Archived-At: Juanma Barranquero writes: >I don't want to switch to Mercurial, so I'm not "siding" with Jordi >here. I like Bazaar, but I don't oppose switching to git. But Jordi's >right, the move to git is *not* imminent. > >I'm sorry, but I don't see why Eric, who (according to my brief >perusal of the list's archive) has not posted on emacs-devel for about >five years, suddenly has the right to appear here, "suggest" that the >time has come to switch to git, and we should just say "yeah" on *his* >terms. > >- He's not bringing any new argument that has not been discussed >before; the only difference is that Richard and Stefan seem to accept >now that Bazaar is beyond hope. > >- His message urging us to switch was posted *four days ago*. > >- He's appointed himself to the role of technical director of the >switch, deciding when and how we should do it, whether Savannah git >facilities are up to the task, timelines, etc. Why? There's no other >Emacs people with git and/or Savannah experience? Whether or not there are such people, did you see any of them volunteering, the way ESR did? >- Last, but not least: emacs-devel was not a democracy before, and it >is not now. Voting and informal polls are great, but at the end of the >day, it's Richard's and Stefan's opinion that counts. Yes, I know that >Eric's message's header says "awaiting Stefan's approval", but >frankly, this: > >> Stefan, please either (a) confirm that you as the official maintainer >> are authorizing this, or (b) put a hold on it and explain what >> additional steps or conditions you deem necessary before we move. > >is not how a polite request should look IMO. And, I'm sorry, but even >if Stefan says that it's OK and Eric's done nothing wrong and I have >my foot firmly in my mouth, I will still believe that we're being >pushed for no particular reason other than Eric's whims. ESR is just trying to get something done in a fairly typical way that we try to get things done around here. He didn't "appoint himself" technical director for the move -- he *volunteered* to do it, and when no one else stepped forward volunteering the same, ESR proceeded on the reasonable assumption that the responsibility was his. Maybe he's being a little pushy as to schedule (I agree the switchover can wait until after the release), but pushy isn't a sin -- in this case it may be a virtue :-) -- and it's quite clear that ESR isn't going to argue if Stefan says to wait until after the freeze is over (or for whatever reason). ESR's just trying to get something done, and has laid his goals out clearly. It's not just his whim: other people have been saying for a long time that this move would be desirable. It happened that ESR's message came at the right moment, with bzr's decline finally unmistakeable. -K