From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: emacs stackexchange beta site Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 20:54:48 +0200 Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Message-ID: <877g0zcufb.fsf@debian.uxu> References: <874mw5q15w.fsf@debian.uxu> <87a95wy73q.fsf@debian.uxu> <8761gkdto0.fsf@panda.goosenet.in> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1411152942 5734 80.91.229.3 (19 Sep 2014 18:55:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 18:55:42 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 19 20:55:35 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XV3LD-0004Bd-1L for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 20:55:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60010 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XV3LC-00038l-L5 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 14:55:34 -0400 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 99 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: P0uMB9BthHuWo8+BJXB4Mw.user.speranza.aioe.org Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 Cancel-Lock: sha1:SCJ5vZvP1QYyGd3eBWp1Y0PxII4= Mail-Copies-To: never Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:207766 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:100039 Archived-At: Udyant Wig writes: > Could you please elaborate why you dislike Googling > and SX in principle? I have already said some of the reasons. Pascal said some of the same things slightly differently, and added some more. In principle, I agree with what he said, though in practice I don't really mind Google spying on me. But OK: I don't like Googling because it is a general tool for the masses. There is nothing wrong with that - sometimes, I'm part of the masses and then I use Google. But when doing computer activity, I don't want general tools for the masses - I want specific tools for programmers and experts. Take aptitude and the software repositories for example. Compare searching with 'aptitude search', getting more info with 'aptitude show', then getting the software with 'sudo aptitude install' - compare this to Googling for software, browsing flame wars in discussion lists, getting to some site from the 90s, downloading, installing - only it doesn't work, you need this, this and this - back to Google... No hits - maybe I should rephrase is? Try again... etc. What I don't like with SX: * I don't like that there are so many rules. It is almost impossible to misbehave. If you do, they edit it away instantly. I think heated discussions should be avoided, and flame wars sucks for anyone involved but also to anyone else. But I mean - so what, as long as you learn from it? I don't want anyone telling me what to do. I want to be free, but still behave. It is part of growing up not to be angry and frustrated, but I don't think "banning" it will get you there any sooner. It is easy to be angry, but it is difficult to be angry at the right person, at the right time, and for the right reason. And even though you can't manage that, when you feel frustration, you should *show* frustration. Especially if you are frustrated with a person who is your superior, bigger, stronger, etc. If you don't show it then, you will show it to someone else, and that will be ten times the worse both for him and your self-esteem. * The fixed web GUI, which you are stuck with - mouse-based, as all web-GUIs those days, tons of links everywhere. "Gnothi seauton" - "know thyself" - I am on the one hand capable of a very high degree of focus, but on the other hand I get very easily disturbed, and once lost, I cannot easily get it back. That's what I like with Usenet - it is only text, and the interface I can whenever needed configure all I want (and I want it a lot, even though I think it is ten times better than SX even to begin with!). * I also don't like the attitude there can be only one correct answer, and the discourage from discussion. I'm certainly not a mystic, "what you believe is right", but above the level of pure factual questions there can be endless discussion, and I don't mind that - on the contrary. But: discussion you should take part in, it is an interaction between people (the famous distributed peer-to-peer review of the FOSS world), or, if you are a lurker, follow step by step. So this is why I give the SX a half point - in the Google problem-solving world, you don't want to wade through never-ending Usenet threads: you just want an answer. So Google and SX is a good match and I won't pretend I wasn't helped numerous times. While it is true that Google reduces the attention span in time and in space, and it by itself cannot offer deep understanding, sometimes you are just stuck on a detail and that isn't even in your big-hefted book you just read. Here is where Google can help you, so you don't get stuck and can move on to bigger and better things. But even though I acknowledge Google can do this, it doesn't mean another, much better tool could do it just the same, only better and with another interface. * I also don't like the reputation system. People get stressed out over that. I can read an answer and tell immediately if it makes sense or not. I don't need anyone to pick my friends, or to present me in a favorable light, for that matter. -- underground experts united