From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On being web-friendly and why info must die Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 16:07:31 +0100 Message-ID: <877fxygr7w.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <20141205123549.GA29331@thyrsus.com> <5485FC59.5030700@cs.ucla.edu> <87388p6glt.fsf@engster.org> <871to9lw6g.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <5486A704.6090305@cs.ucla.edu> <87k321jj4e.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <54876F7F.9000607@cs.ucla.edu> <87y4qfj2u9.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <54889A57.5060905@cs.ucla.edu> <87vbljb9f4.fsf@wanadoo.es> <54889F6D.6060408@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3w7b83a.fsf@wanadoo.es> <5488C710.3000209@cs.ucla.edu> <871to7ayv9.fsf@wanadoo.es> <5488DC0C.2070402@cs.ucla.edu> <87d27qin2j.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87sigm4d8s.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <87vblih039.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87tx12mk8k.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <87mw6ugv0f.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <877fxymejb.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1418310545 13110 80.91.229.3 (11 Dec 2014 15:09:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 15:09:05 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: phillip.lord@newcastle.ac.uk (Phillip Lord) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 11 16:08:59 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Xz5MO-0007OT-N2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 16:08:56 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51972 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xz5MO-0002q1-5H for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:08:56 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41009) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xz5LL-0001na-Bx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:07:52 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xz5LG-0003Bh-JN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:07:51 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:44534) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xz5LG-0003Bc-Fu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:07:46 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51710 helo=lola) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xz5LF-0004h4-Tu; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:07:46 -0500 Original-Received: by lola (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 75337E664E; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 16:07:31 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <877fxymejb.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> (Phillip Lord's message of "Thu, 11 Dec 2014 14:44:56 +0000") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179769 Archived-At: phillip.lord@newcastle.ac.uk (Phillip Lord) writes: > David Kastrup writes: >>> At the risk of repeating a point that has been made before, yes, of >>> course it is the case that for the majority of people who are actively >>> using texinfo to produce documentation for Emacs, texinfo is not a >>> problem. >>> >>> The incremental approach, however, of first enabling the use of org so >>> that some of the documentation could be written using it and then >>> transforming this to texinfo (to work with the rest of the tool chain) >>> would be interesting. It would, for example, allow you to see whether >>> org would be a problem for you in a real environment. >> >> The main reason brought forward for abandoning Texinfo appears that it >> has become slower. So we convert instead to a system that is even >> slower in order to indirectly produce Texinfo which we will then >> _additionally_ convert to Info? > > > The main reason *that you accept* for moving from texinfo yes. There are > other reasons also. Yes, it would be slower. > > >>> If it works, then the eventual aim could be to throw out texinfo and >>> replace it with org by simple virtual of writing a org->info exported >>> (direct rather than through texinfo). >> >> Would still be slower than now, correct? > > > It's not possible to tell, since direct org->info does not exist. I > suspect perl text hacking is quicker than emacs lisp hacking, but > texinfo and org are different input formats. Well, easy to compare "perl text hacking" with "emacs lisp hacking": just compare the execution speeds of M-x makeinfo-buffer RET (Perl text hacking when makeinfo is version 5.x) with M-x texinfo-format-buffer RET (should be Elisp). >>> It's the reverse Yoda approach: "try or try not: there is no do". >> >> Yes, I understood that this is all about hipsterisms. But hip does >> not get the work done or redone. > > I am saddened that my humour witticisms have not lightened your day. The sun tends to do a better job with that. > I will try and do harder. Can we focus on the best arguments rather than the best movie insider jokes? Working on free software does not really leave much of a budget for cinema for me, so I prefer not to compete in that area. > A discussion about text formats for manual pages is not natural > territory for gags. That is a feature, not a bug. -- David Kastrup