From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Windows emacs-25.1 i686 vs x86_64? Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2016 21:50:49 +0000 Message-ID: <877f8gqnuu.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <6e2cffe5-942b-48d4-9ed5-ef39803bcd30@googlegroups.com> <87mvhgsf21.fsf@russet.org.uk> <8360o4monq.fsf@gnu.org> <87vaw4gq0j.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83oa1vlnkk.fsf@gnu.org> <87d1iba6od.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83ins2jq88.fsf@gnu.org> <87eg2p8swx.fsf@russet.org.uk> <831sypjmst.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1478469078 20142 195.159.176.226 (6 Nov 2016 21:51:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2016 21:51:18 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 06 22:51:15 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3VLC-0003LY-9b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 22:51:02 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48195 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3VLF-0005vS-2i for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 16:51:05 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36611) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3VL8-0005vC-Ab for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 16:50:59 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3VL7-0002mz-4s for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 16:50:58 -0500 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:36633) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3VL2-0002ij-Qu; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 16:50:53 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=c90LpOotS5pTLXcvY7s5HyNUtKFyYwqEehx+3zRdCgM=; b=RJwwlOqEI6E3GeU+Fy6r+Q16h A7XUuv+CmDWFggJMoi2P6zI0mdQyDmrA8ry9IOtaJ5zI5VsLa4C5lQCZgkKTazxZMNFp/fhWiNFoe WrytC3T2iaOmAUOmZHWqB/ps8czivTOyNZdSH0UJmG55rXx3PMXVNkZqu+SiSGy7MNTkZ9R3X9DiH 54gezsULeuOwsMBzOcjtOKBgc8ke4DOBWgQVvMMMyExmeeKMNd+65fYlS0nmh2UcFEFs1SHnOz528 cqAkxA0hU9mBTBF8VzlNUrjtA4kasKISbUI/AD0cfbgZGmwPCKaThJBuRjZhdt8NAM8AU1dmqWAJW JG925bGEw==; Original-Received: from cpc14-benw10-2-0-cust305.16-2.cable.virginm.net ([92.234.125.50]:36484 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1c3VL0-001ljw-Rd; Sun, 06 Nov 2016 21:50:51 +0000 In-Reply-To: <831sypjmst.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 06 Nov 2016 05:43:14 +0200") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 31.216.48.48 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:209226 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> > Also, please don't remove information about Windows 9X, as the 32-bit >> > MS-Windows build of Emacs still supports that. >> >> I would argue against this. I removed the material on Windows 9x since >> it has long since reached EOL -- 10 years, or 25% of Emacs' existance. > > That is true, but we still try supporting those old systems, as they > are widespread in the 3rd world. We have code whose only purpose is > to continue that support. We don' take MS EOL decisions as important. EOL decisions are important. Of course, this does not mean that you have to take them as gospel, but to ignore them is not a good course, I think. Still I see others have taken up this issue in the thread, so I will not revisit the issue of whether 95/98 are supported further, and so only comment on it's position in the documentation. >> While providing this information somewhere might be useful, having it in >> this readme mostly serves to make the readme and to some extent Emacs >> appear unmaintained. > > I don't see why a document that mentions the latest version of Emacs > could appear unmaintained. If you'd like we could mention the date of > last update in the file. I think that this is not the issue -- in general, if I read a document that has lots of advice on what to do with long obsolete operating systems, I would just assume that it has not been maintained. >> In addition, it also makes the documentation longer which adds to >> the impression that Emacs is hard to use. > > One short paragraph is not a significant addition, IMO. The file is already very long for a readme. My experience of watching new Emacs users is that there experience is very much "do I have to read all of this to edit a file". Reducing things like this readme to an absolute minimum seems a useful aim. How to support a very, very old operating system seems a poor thing to include. To steal a quote "It's a beautiful thing, the Destruction of words." Incidentally, on this topic, is this paragraph (adding in 2001) still at all relevant? Virus scanners Some virus scanners interfere with Emacs' use of subprocesses. If you are unable to use subprocesses and you use Dr. Solomon's WinGuard or McAfee's Vshield, turn off "Scan all files" (WinGuard) or "boot sector scanning" (McAfee exclusion properties). >> I'd be happy to look for somewhere else to put this information, if you >> think it need to be retained. > > There's no other good place. This is the file where users should look > for preliminaries for Emacs installation. README.W32.obsolete? Phil