From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: hw Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Some developement questions Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 00:17:11 +0200 Organization: my virtual residence Message-ID: <877ekigiiw.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> References: <444779489.8504194.1534538988289.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <444779489.8504194.1534538988289@mail.yahoo.com> <83sh3cfb3t.fsf@gnu.org> <87sh36inql.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <8336v6cvem.fsf@gnu.org> <8736v6icgt.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83tvnmb958.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1534976213 8157 195.159.176.226 (22 Aug 2018 22:16:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 22:16:53 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) Cc: spacibba@aol.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 23 00:16:48 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fsbQm-0001zg-5Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 00:16:48 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:32784 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fsbSs-0004vy-2S for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 18:18:58 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59756) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fsbSY-0004v2-9F for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 18:18:40 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fsbSX-0007bw-Ei for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 18:18:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mo6-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de ([2a01:238:20a:202:5300::1]:32333) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fsbSV-0007Zc-MM; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 18:18:36 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1534976313; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=adminart.net; h=Sender:References:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=oitWpGPwYpxoGUhQvn1uM40ZzIU6uv6p1giCBUrMqnU=; b=H1684ydQwxasHXrSUwLIU1t45r11TDcl7a7maRc+xsnRP0zaBnVUcF7zrURI8/lEWi 4gsQEfXpm0xXVVVh1e78GhfnZ7p2xcWyHG78AQJePlMfH8nISJZfx3TmeZDWDOiWCOXp eNOrHsluhWDo8VsrsLq+cFLg/NBZ+S03ssCJBJD18zAuaHy2fwR5lDBatuUOlaD2hXDb DwkwsyMaZqX6f38h8Ndfjp9JaK3gq106sQCN761BeHADrNLNTfwbOQyhRIPt8w+YUvI/ UnFGA+0uHhV/lPvE/MwfOzr8Z+chaHwHJTGdy3CxoGyUus/d6JM5tWOngR+wzduZUFA5 Kk0Q== X-RZG-AUTH: ":O2kGeEG7b/pS1FS4THaxjVF9w0vVgfQ9xGcjwO5WMRo5c+h5ceMqQWZ3yrBp+AVdIIwXjneEe9k=" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Original-Received: from lee by himinbjorg.adminart.net with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1fsbSP-0000lp-P4; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 00:18:29 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83tvnmb958.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 22 Aug 2018 20:31:32 +0300") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2a01:238:20a:202:5300::1 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:228832 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: hw >> Cc: spacibba@aol.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 18:37:54 +0200 >>=20 >> > IMO, that would be too radical, because in an init file each option >> > already has a value. So we will have to decide for the users whether >> > or not they want certain options to have certain values. That might >> > work for boolean options, but many options in Emacs are non-boolean. >> > As just one example, consider display-line-numbers-mode -- it has >> > between 3 and 4 different styles, so which one would you put in the >> > .emacs? >>=20 >> Use the values you would you put for the particular use case the file is >> designed for. > > They all are. The selection depends on user preferences and habits. > > [...] > >> They don=C2=B4t need to do that. You offer them to use one of the >> configurations in the LaTeX group for working with LaTeX and to use one >> of the configurations in the C++ group when writing C++ source code, and >> so on. > > We already have that: each mode file includes options for that mode. > What will we gain by having another file with those same options? The gain would be that the user can pick between *sets* of settings, guided by a description of what each set does. He doesn't need to concern himself with any particular setting to figure out if changing it brings him closer to what he wants, and then experiment with the next and the next and the next until he tried all the ones he could find. That kind of learning can come later. I think I see your point to assume that the defaults are good and to present the user with the individual settings and to let him learn and make his own decisions because everyone is too different to do anything else. That's great when the new user uses Emacs because he wants to learn how to use it, and it might not be so good when he wants to use Emacs to get some work done while the defaults happen not to be good for him: Even better when he can simply switch to a set of settings that helps him with his work without having to go through all the trial and error otherwise needed to get there. Does that make sense?