From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Auto-installing packages? Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 12:48:49 +0100 Message-ID: <877ejks5su.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <87a7okkw3v.fsf@russet.org.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1537184865 885 195.159.176.226 (17 Sep 2018 11:47:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 11:47:45 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 17 13:47:41 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1g1s0B-0008VR-VT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 13:47:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35067 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g1s2I-0002en-HG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 07:49:50 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33951) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g1s29-0002db-Uh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 07:49:42 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g1s26-0001tW-QY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 07:49:41 -0400 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([78.129.138.110]:39350) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g1s26-00015y-GB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 07:49:38 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=vnuQvU0jq6k52G6M/lCW7E1i5QEo21zsl7L1l4Bif+E=; b=VfJm/ioOeBsdmgOlsJoOURKac baScNxsPgw/jjqPUF6bUi3JUslXILW46SAbQXRHhvC8jclIpvI2GZWcj2vitaV9/3maqdu7h016H0 B8obX8NSSDu+tEtV6GppRwbyH19cYRPG0AQ1+Sy7TZ2h4AhoymaDTBonFYydmT/jlh6BOsVT/daD3 mp8g0AMqOjbIvajzbUIisGKMlPBqP1aCuuaKOQa7pL3J0lC8/dsBQPrcyBt5dg3Iau8voiVOzKUy/ iRnU9GLbrInmSDtVLN8DQPqZhupTIys160/J4K3RsPagzCoC81pbk8HO6rQe436utWyo/LxhS8c0M v9JukvwEw==; Original-Received: from janus-nat-128-240-225-124.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.225.124]:45989 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1g1s1N-00CAio-Jl; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 11:48:53 +0000 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Fri, 14 Sep 2018 14:17:27 -0400") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 78.129.138.110 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229889 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: >> I use `use-package' to "automatically" install packages for me. > > How does it work? > Doesn't this silently install at startup the packages you specified? > I really dislike the "silently" part (and am not too happy about doing > all of it at startup either). Yep. It runs "package-install". It's not silent, since you get all the install messages. And, yes, doing it as part of startup is very slow iff none of the packages are installed. Also, it breaks startup if a package installation fails. Still this only happens when you use Emacs on a new machine or in my case, when I change Emacs version. > Another related issue is the "auto-upgrade" part. This one is worse > because it seems to inevitably involve some kind of "polling" of > a central server, which I find to be a serious privacy issue. It doesn't autoupdate, although it's simple to make it do so, but automating the "package-refresh, update-all" cycle. A privacy issue, yes, maybe, although it's not massively different from running this manually. >> The auto-installing, autoload would be nice. It would answer the >> long-standing desire to incorporate ELPA packages more deeply into >> Emacs. > > Indeed, there's the problem of installing those auto-install-autoloads, There is a practical issue with handling it *just like* autoloads. At the moment, autoloads happens in the command-loop. So, from nearly anywhere. That's okay, because if an autoloaded package cannot be autoloaded, then Emacs has some pretty major issues. Installing a package over a network is a much more failable process. > and admittedly, for GNU ELPA packages we could imagine pre-installing > them for all GNU ELPA packages, but I'd like for it to be easy enough to > setup to convince most users to use the same mechanism for > MELPA packages. > > Also, pre-installing them for GNU ELPA packages obviously will only > handle those packages that are part of GNU ELPA when Emacs is released. No, you misunderstand me. You don't need to pre-install this way. You release "Emacs without ELPA", but include "auto-install-autoloads". Emacs will get bigger this way over time. Phil