From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal for 'package-isolate' command Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2023 07:49:45 +0000 Message-ID: <877cpsvlgm.fsf@posteo.net> References: <87r0oftgye.fsf@posteo.net> <87350vt1wz.fsf@posteo.net> <871qgen1ln.fsf@posteo.net> <87edke4mou.fsf@posteo.net> <87wmy6kuan.fsf@posteo.net> <87wmy6w070.fsf@posteo.net> <87zg2sjleg.fsf@posteo.net> <87pm3nlbm7.fsf@posteo.net> <87zg2ri9g9.fsf@posteo.net> <87bkf7b7ls.fsf@posteo.net> <87v8dfi6zy.fsf@posteo.net> <877cpvb361.fsf@posteo.net> <87pm3mj0ot.fsf_-_@posteo.net> <87v8de9qel.fsf@posteo.net> <87pm3mgj8d.fsf@posteo.net> <87a5upojjc.fsf@posteo.net> <871qg1oi61.fsf@posteo.net> <87y1i9fs8v.fsf@posteo.net> <874jkwvs01.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="12400"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Thierry Volpiatto Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 18 09:50:42 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qWuFm-00036P-1B for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 09:50:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qWuF0-0004Fd-Ig; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 03:49:54 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qWuEy-0004FG-Ih for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 03:49:52 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qWuEv-0000Sq-Ar for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 03:49:52 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 459F4240029 for ; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 09:49:47 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1692344987; bh=Qo8FTvKM1bzr5v6Vi8jpZ4K+Rl656JlzR15lUcFDfuI=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:From; b=WEBwvR59BTb7BVw+sgB4VI92PYyCmT6KSAFCHJqggnrJoIvL3Mla4iO6dDln3BZLK hvePz1ecoKa6W90EGFGc0woQ037H0No65jGt6MvS3g1PnaTXMlX00Akyq/SdWkaEsa bEH169zDOTBDPQcryT4VEmsYz9uASc6RHgBEhlLG6V4VL8ufG4J/9pnwkIfGmYhP+4 SOx4ogPp8TUi4Ci14BQRjuucecZ4hcq2qAHP9Zvsug/qJCdET0eahxZ04rdIqMEx6X U1mIt4CaoX31RL7NZ+4h/WJu3b1r5cOS8R4RdjtE19DljkagicTcfrN8JhlEmv0u5F CqLXkdYWCfAqg== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4RRvCt4VZtz9rxF; Fri, 18 Aug 2023 09:49:46 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <874jkwvs01.fsf@posteo.net> (Thierry Volpiatto's message of "Fri, 18 Aug 2023 04:57:06 +0000") Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; keydata= mDMEZBBQQhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAHJuofBrfqFh12uQu0Yi7mrl525F28eTmwUDflFNmdui0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiWBBMWCAA+FiEEDg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwMFCQHhM4AFCwkI BwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwulikAEA77hloUiSrXgFkUVJhlKBpLCHUjA0 mWZ9j9w5d08+jVwBAK6c4iGP7j+/PhbkxaEKa4V3MzIl7zJkcNNjHCXmvFcEuDgEZBBQQhIKKwYB BAGXVQEFAQEHQI5NLiLRjZy3OfSt1dhCmFyn+fN/QKELUYQetiaoe+MMAwEIB4h+BBgWCAAmFiEE Dg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwwFCQHhM4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwukm+wEA8cml4JpK NeAu65rg+auKrPOP6TP/4YWRCTIvuYDm0joBALw98AMz7/qMHvSCeU/hw9PL6u6R2EScxtpKnWof z4oM Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:308887 Archived-At: Thierry Volpiatto writes: > Philip Kaludercic writes: > >>> Forget it, it is working properly, just forget you had modified >>> package--dependencies as well. >>> Sorry for the noise. >> >> It was either that or a new function had to be added, not sure which >> approach is worse. The current implementation seems to have been >> hastily added by Lars last year, and it is a bit regrettable in >> retrospect. It would be possible to modify my change, and have the >> function always return package-desc objects, since the function is only >> used in one other spot in another part of the file. While there might >> be others (packages or individuals) that depend on the function behaving >> the way it does, but on the other hand, convention designates it as >> being an "internal" function. > > The actual version is something like 4 or 5 lines long, so external > packages can inline this version under another name if really needed, > but your version is covering the both so it's ok I think. > OTOH The problem with package.el is inconsistency within its functions, > sometimes you have to use a pkg-desc as arg, sometimes not, sometimes > functions return a list of symbols sometimes a list of pkg-desc, what is > a package name, a string or a symbol? What is a pkg-desc exactly, > sometimes it is the cdr in other places the cadr is used... > Also built-in packages don't have the same format unless they are distributed > in Elpa etc... Right, there is certainly work to be done. >>> Some packages seems to require a specific version of a package for their >>> dependency e.g. seq, by excluding it the package may not work correctly, >>> this is my understanding but I may be wrong. Also perhaps the package >>> e.g. seq is selected later when computing dependencies but maybe user >>> wants to select a particular version manually in the first place? >> >> The current algorithm should pick the first package in the package alist >> that satisfies the necessary dependencies. Perhaps that should be >> re-thought or the selection should be more clever, e.g. if the user >> explicitly specifies a dependency with a version, then it should be >> preferred to whatever other dependency might be determined, at the >> possible expense of triggering runtime bugs. > > I think it is hard to cover all cases, but after all it is more a > developer tool for debugging a particular package than a end user tool > to run packages, so perhaps the developer can give directives about > dependencies to use when needed. > > Another thing, you use actually > > (expand-file-name invocation-name invocation-directory) > > I suggest you use the truename of this instead as emacs can be symlinked > in some installations. It should work with the symlink name, but it is > clearer which emacs version is used. I second Eli's question here, what difference would it make? Clearer to whom? > Now your function is working fine and nearly finish, did you think how > you are going to distribute it? It seems you are going to merge it in > master, but what about providing it as well as a Elpa package so that > users of old emacs (at some point of course, say emacs-27) can use it to > report bugs? I am not a fan of small ELPA packages, but what I'd like to bring up again was the proposal to add package.el itself to ELPA. I wrote a patch in <873559q83j.fsf@posteo.net> that should arrange everything necessary for this move, there are still a few points that should be discussed in terms of stability and recovering from a possibly inconsistent state. I think I'll create a feature branch some day soon to make the proposal more concrete. > Thanks.