From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thanos Apollo Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Writting Greek in Emacs Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2024 22:08:17 +0300 Message-ID: <877cahxffi.fsf@thanosapollo.org> References: <874j5ql4pd.fsf@posteo.net> <87a5fdhlyg.fsf@thanosapollo.org> <87wmih6xa7.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="32226"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Juan Manuel =?utf-8?Q?Mac=C3=ADas?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 09 21:09:17 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1syc3h-0008Cr-4E for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 09 Oct 2024 21:09:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1syc2u-0006Tt-Kz; Wed, 09 Oct 2024 15:08:28 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1syc2t-0006TP-DR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Oct 2024 15:08:27 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp.forwardemail.net ([149.28.215.223]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1syc2n-00056x-PL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Oct 2024 15:08:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=thanosapollo.org; h=Content-Type: MIME-Version: Message-ID: Date: References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Cc: To: From; q=dns/txt; s=fe-4dbabb00f3; t=1728500897; bh=AAYhImM2L7a3+RXrfZhWaLlSo1EtIA6GsiVVTOPaGPk=; b=BnuKoMjmQLQWc2qtDKmT+hvigx+urpYU/Ib57Z5OF18TIfonZoZ8EICeXw+WNVkOBnHHmAjwc 5mTM8eyKmU4n6L7XqDztgzTABsPdu8zXxFoIY47ASLc0ZRFu+LPQNMXqHG/18GVPlWUgFdGVWHl t/CuzYLP9r9pINY7JreiJ98= In-Reply-To: <87wmih6xa7.fsf@posteo.net> X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@forwardemail.net X-Report-Abuse: abuse@forwardemail.net Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@forwardemail.net X-ForwardEmail-Version: 0.4.40 X-ForwardEmail-Sender: rfc822; public@thanosapollo.org, smtp.forwardemail.net, 149.28.215.223 X-ForwardEmail-ID: 6706d483465721aa43c96e23 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=149.28.215.223; envelope-from=SRS0=1109=RG=thanosapollo.org=public@fe-bounces.thanosapollo.org; helo=smtp.forwardemail.net X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:324453 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Juan Manuel Mac=C3=ADas writes: [...] > > All of these characters can be obtained with the greek-ibycus4 input > method, which I mentioned. The advantage is that it comes out of the box > in Emacs. For example: Not true, there are missing glyphs such as with macros & vrachy, e.g =E1=BE= =B8 =E1=BE=B9 =E1=BF=A8 =E1=BF=A9. Issues with greek-ibycus4 include: =2D Having "K+" translating into "=CF=9E" (koppa, an archaic Greek letter) = and other similar keybindings, just try to imagine writing chemistry using greek-ibycus4. =20=20 =2D Not including binds for keys such as "J", there is no J letter in Greek or Coptic. =2D Not following the standard keybindings for greek letters found in Greek keyboards. Not including macros & vrachy letters would be acceptable if it did not try to include archaic Greek & Coptic letters. This is not a greek polytonic input method for it can't be used for daily workloads, this is a niche greek-like input method. Schools & some newspapers in Greece still use polytonic, we can't expect users who type Greek daily to switch to greek-ibycus4. =3Dgreek-polytonic input method should follow the standard greek qwerty keyboard, which is already implemented in "greek", just without the extra diacritics. [...] > What the monotonic reform did was eliminate accents, not create a new > accent (tonos). Oxia is a tonos, just like varia and perispomeni. Greek Unicode also includes Coptic, which is Egyptian with Greek letters (currently used by the Coptic Church) as well as "calligraphy", ligature & archaic letters. A greek input method should only include the 24 letters of the Greek alphabet & prefer the oxia from Greek Extended over the "tonos" of that is included in Unicode "Greek and Coptic" (Range: 0370=E2=80=9303FF). > >> Additionally, I do not think it's proper to call it Classical Greek, >> since it's the same script used by the current "greek" input method, >> just with the addition of extra diacritics (many "tonous", polytonic). [...] > However, I agree with RMS that "ibycus4" sounds quite cryptic and > should be renamed, maybe polytonic-greek? No, ibycus4 cannot be used as a greek polytonic method nor do I think it tries to do that. When GNU Emacs started Greek "polytonic" was the official language. Polytonic might be the official system once more in Greece, that's why we should implement it correctly. I've already replaced "greek" with my implementations and it's almost 1:1 compatible, just haven't added all the Greek Extended characters as I'm still testing the keybindings. Feel free to try it out and share your thoughts. =2D-=20 Thanos Apollo https://thanosapollo.org --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQJMBAEBCAA2FiEEYrdY0PZxmTi8Cc7KM59zbDpyCSgFAmcG1KEYHHB1YmxpY0B0 aGFub3NhcG9sbG8ub3JnAAoJEDOfc2w6cgkorHsP/RXJq3WZ3hnxG2t1ybQw+bTB yh1LAlAcB0Hnigs/6LnAFwKgQekZYQRBQtPFOiV4deBRBUGhAeX7cmCIGLW3IhdJ HR8Ws2l/2uhp9arKkZB/kIogvB6AtRYopeRibPY2gX5mXAyFrPJpBlrFQSx8ykwX MxypLEJftL1ilkBuG1UmfaQWulHfrXmw88B/x39iwS6WXqj/AZXSMKrlXjrnfVxf nLqAIYuiCiswu8BE2nadKQ0lDzl81KDGgEHjj/MlY3mFMZYzGavVZL7Sf6WkWpuP jEFob17Rp7x3YzMnEm+lo33VMbWpNYGoeGq6WOo5D6tzaMixOx+xXj6mK4XupywJ DOn54STI9UYBmBk59QTsbFchakEwfhb7HZQ0A/LagYE8/URzAQVzpwMUcU3fTriN uumEvz1I6bLo1nZiZM4Px3HZBUtPO6BVb75O90oxkQ99MdH8gLsr3s4eVMKceKZh TRl/4LrjMdbKcvCFVWZx4Tj0SE8IYWDKq7o4fymD6rFIebRuJ9VRCpDllFdKXmca lGkWJBOYxLnOnlMsibWm49qnJR8MANsEwXyPqEnCqCdrOiVfr8VQFezoGnjCYFAy VjyNxv9mY9QYeltLFKm+gVCkd6AZbUDleFOoeftvFv7daDMKaCYdDdAm03kkZxyy xK+4V+ceMOsdqoJsgm/P =YQPB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--