From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Daniel Colascione Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2024 09:51:41 -0400 Message-ID: <877D0EA4-CAC1-4FA3-8102-8AC7446AFAED@dancol.org> References: <7133BE83-064B-43A4-A193-61376605222C@dancol.org> <055E6E92-6971-409E-A106-7E0C64FEF856@dancol.org> <87bk3r22x5.fsf@yahoo.com> <746FE961-37C5-4387-8274-7D90908EE2D6@dancol.org> <8734p3219c.fsf@yahoo.com> <867cefeo1w.fsf@gnu.org> <8734p03e94.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <867cec9ccl.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="40225"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Jeremy Bryant , luangruo@yahoo.com, stefankangas@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 26 15:52:26 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sMT4T-000AEf-Rz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 26 Jun 2024 15:52:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sMT43-0006up-Ny; Wed, 26 Jun 2024 09:52:00 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sMT3z-0006uP-BS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jun 2024 09:51:55 -0400 Original-Received: from dancol.org ([2600:3c01:e000:3d8::1]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sMT3u-0000sw-2z; Wed, 26 Jun 2024 09:51:55 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dancol.org; s=x; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: References:In-Reply-To:Subject:CC:To:From:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=ybK/g1TC8de+THRGrOeSeZsNP/JW70Heg6GCNsUxE2U=; b=bV1jwZFRJFtLJmKvI3dVQ9jR1A Th3oQpQMsGK1hE4FJG+wQQUQA5QVtjQWqkz/+B7WeugBJdQBTet+vYnspDE4ihdTxRYGwOa6AleUB ZK5RexHh8+63v2rqNzEGTzAXHWymrZrPsfO8w2pYEAiauENP1/i/FX4HIiqFSwbaN9TPsa/suOQP9 p2UxfAdqtelV0rgMPy7OQ/DYcb4094X4dAg6Ifmf1NrCDYhM0AYgstNWwCn66CKr8Zfi676CCf5cr YK+J75JfBLJYMyBM6Ghu6ACvDbH00FlHzIIHj+vOAgTbvYitE7O/40GV7YM8aLXpZvAgC2HmNlhQe +1N8ZY/A==; Original-Received: from 2603-9001-4203-1ab2-3cec-3bc2-2295-1139.inf6.spectrum.com ([2603:9001:4203:1ab2:3cec:3bc2:2295:1139]:51984 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by dancol.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1sMT3p-00025u-Ah; Wed, 26 Jun 2024 09:51:45 -0400 In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2600:3c01:e000:3d8::1; envelope-from=dancol@dancol.org; helo=dancol.org X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:320688 Archived-At: On June 26, 2024 9:22:10 AM EDT, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >Hello, Daniel=2E > >On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 07:44:19 -0400, Daniel Colascione wrote: > > >> On June 26, 2024 7:23:38 AM EDT, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> >> From: Jeremy Bryant >> >> Cc: Po Lu , dancol@dancol=2Eorg, acm@muc=2Ed= e, >> >> stefankangas@gmail=2Ecom, monnier@iro=2Eumontreal=2Eca, emacs-de= vel@gnu=2Eorg >> >> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2024 22:26:47 +0100 > >> >> 1=2E >> >> I also find that C-x 4 is indeed logical, which makes it easier to r= emember > >> >> 2=2E >> >> C-x 4 =2E=2E works on the terminal/console=2E This is important for >> >> preserving functionality of Emacs=2E > >> >I still hope that someone will tell what is exactly the request here, >> >given that windmove-mode is on by default and its commands are >> >autoloaded=2E > >> To be clear, my proposal is to bind C-x 4 in the default >> global keymap to the corresponding directional windmove commands and >> to bind the shifted versions of these keys to the state swapping >> versions of these movement commands=2E IOW, in emacs -Q, C-x 4 LEFT >> should move left=2E > >That doesn't clear up all that much=2E The answers to "why?" are missing= =2E >I don't think there need to be such bindings in the default keymap=2E > >As Eli said, windmove is autoloaded, including its command >windmove-default-keybindings=2E By default, this binds S- etc=2E, wh= ich >strike me as better bindings than C-x 4 etc=2E for anybody not using >these bindings for anything else=2E C-x 4 might be convenient for >those on tty's whose keyboard layout lacks -, but >hardly on a GUI Emacs=2E > >Possibly, windmove-default-keybindings could be enhanced to allow a >prefix key binding to be given as an alternative to a set of modifiers=2E >Possibly=2E > >So, currently, windmove is easily available to anybody that wants it, >and doesn't "waste" the key bindings of those who don't=2E There is no "waste"=2E We've gone over this at length=2E People who want t= o bind these keys can bind them still=2E Nobody is hurt by default bindings= being present, and all the arguments I've seen against these bindings are = also arguments against having default bindings at all=2E There's no need to augment the binding function with a new parameter=2E An= yone who can use the new parameter can just bind the keys directly=2E The p= oint is that out of the box Emacs should be useful and useable, that the la= ck of default bindings for windmove makes it less so, and that there's litt= le downside to adding these bindings=2E=20 > Why is the >current state unsatisfactory, and why do you want to make these new >bindings? Because it's useful to navigate windows positionally as well as temporally= =2E Other-window often has unpredictable effects and navigating with windmo= ve DWIM=2E >