From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim X Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Cool and Useful LISP for the .emacs file Date: 23 Nov 2003 19:02:23 +1100 Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <8765hbtsvk.fsf@tiger.rapttech.com.au> References: Reply-To: timx@spamto.devnul.com NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1069574802 6941 80.91.224.253 (23 Nov 2003 08:06:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 08:06:42 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 23 09:06:38 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1ANpGQ-0003fh-00 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:06:38 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1ANq6n-0002pV-HD for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 04:00:45 -0500 Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 66 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp195-39.lns1.syd3.internode.on.net Original-X-Trace: duster.adelaide.on.net 1069573468 ppp195-39.lns1.syd3.internode.on.net (23 Nov 2003 18:14:28 +1050) Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.ade.connect.com.au!duster.adelaide.on.net!not-for-mail Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:118565 Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:14507 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:14507 >>>>> "Jody" == Jody M Klymak writes: Jody> Hi Dan, Jody> Dan Anderson writes: Jody> [snip much good advice...] >> Learning LISP is not hard... Jody> Heh, heh. Compared to what? Assembly code? Jody> I personally find lisp quite difficult. The opportunities to Jody> code in it are few and far enough between, and the syntax so Jody> different from any other modern language, that I have a one-day Jody> overhead just to spool up to the point where I can do even the Jody> simplest thing. And thus the coding opportunities get even Jody> fewer and further between, and the cycle spirals to the point Jody> where I am dependent on the good nature of package maintainers Jody> to tweak what I want. Jody> This must limit the base of emacs coders. Jody> Despite this, of course, there are many wonderful packages Jody> written for emacs. It causes me to wonder if this is despite Jody> lisp or in some way because of it. Wow, that sounds familiar. I found the same thing, at first. However, after investing considerable time I now *think* I see the light at the end of the tunnel. to some extent, I think its harder to get your head around lisp when you come form a background of more procedural type languages such as C. Those starting with lisp rather than moving to it from another language seem to have an easier time. It think its because lisp (and elisp) represent a totally different way of thinking about problems, coding the solutions and debugging. While I still class myself as very much a novice with elisp, I am at last beginning to see some of the elegance and find my own solutions are beginning to reflect my shift to a more elisp/lisp approach. Once you get there, you begin to find its very quick compard to languages like C. Now, I'm less hesitant when I come across something which doesn't quite work the way I like it and often find myself stunned by how few lines and how easily I can modify or add some functionality. I've even started prototyping some of my ideas in lisp and if applicable elisp. then, if the idea seems to bare fruit and I want to apply it to some project I'm doing in another language, I recode it in that language. this is very enlightening as you begin to see how some things are very simple to do in lisp and much more complicated or time consuming to do in C or some other language. the thing I'm really pleased about is I believe my C coding, scripting and work I do generally has improved - solutions/algorithims seem to be clearer and to me, more elegant. While it does take time, I think there is a lot to recommend lisp/elisp for both coding and learning. Tim -- Tim Cross The e-mail address on this message is FALSE (obviously!). My real e-mail is to a company in Australia called rapttech and my login is tcross - if you really need to send mail, you should be able to work it out!