From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: floyd@barrow.com (Floyd L. Davidson) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Making Emacs more newbie friendly Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 14:35:51 -0900 Organization: __________ Message-ID: <8764zllwko.fld@barrow.com> References: <874qf8d3cy.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1111361878 24280 80.91.229.2 (20 Mar 2005 23:37:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 23:37:58 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 21 00:37:58 2005 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DD9zT-00044Z-Ac for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Mar 2005 00:37:52 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DDAGS-000176-17 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 20 Mar 2005 18:55:24 -0500 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-08!sn-post-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help User-Agent: gnus 5.10.6/XEmacs 21.4.15/Linux 2.6.5 Cancel-Lock: sha1:uAdHbdH6fXsUHqAlO0CgrYHfN1g= Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Original-Lines: 107 Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:129505 Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-MailScanner-To: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:25057 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:25057 ken wrote: > >As a touch-typist, I avoid the arrow keys, as well as the >PageUp, PageDown, and all the other keys in that section of the >keyboard. And I avoid applications which force me to use them. >What I like about emacs is that I don't have to use these keys. >They really get in the way of productivity. A good point. I learned long ago not to bind commonly used commands to function keys. First its harder to type them, but second and of greater importance to me, they aren't always available (e.g., when logged in remotely, or on a partially configured system, etc. etc.). Being used to touch typing all of the common commands using regular keys provides much better functionality (in my case, and that may not be true for others). But that also left the question of what to do with the function keys. I bind them, on a per mode basis, to locally defined or not so commonly used commands. The problem with that was not being able to remember 50-100 function key bindings that changed. So I came up with a function to list only function key bindings. All I need do is remember that a command exists, and that F2 will print a list of bindings to show how to access the command. I'm using Gnus right now, so F2 prints a list that starts off like this, f1 << help-command >> f2 fld-describe-fkeys f3 fld-bold-word f4 fld-italic-word f5 fld-underline-word f6 ispell-message f7 fld-fix-buffer f8 fld-picture-mode-toggle f9 dictionary-search f10 dictionary-match-words It goes on to show every combination, such as shifted Fkeys, C-fkeys, etc. And if F2 is used with any of those modifiers, the list is abbreviated to only show bindings with the given modifier. As an example, switching from the article buffer back to the summary buffer changes to a new set of bindings, which begins with this list: f1 << help-command >> f2 fld-describe-fkeys f3 fld-date-file-now f4 rfc-search f5 fld-gnus-date-timer f6 gnus-article-treat-html f7 gnus-summary-toggle-mime f8 gnus-summary-repair-multipart f9 gnus-summary-delete-article f10 dictionary-match-words >> By arrow keys I also mean text selection with shift+arrow >> keys, etc. It is pretty standard in modern systems, so it >> should be turned on by default. > >Same applies here as above. If you like using these kinds of >keybindings, why don't you simply use an editor that uses them. >It sounds like learning something new is too advanced for you. I would suggest that for people who are willing to select an editor based on default key bindings (particularly key bindings for function/arrow/ etc keys), emacs is far too complex an editor... ;-( >>>> I may sound like a heretic, but I don't think a newbie should learn new >>>> keybindings for cursor movement. Well, certainly not if they have learned the *right* ones. What that is might be open to question, but for some of us the only possible bindings are traditional Emacs bindings. I believe that is *exactly* what newbies should learn first. >It's difficult for me to have any sympathy for someone who >doesn't want to spend a half hour learning the basics of a new Can anyone learn the basics of Emacs in half an hour? Maybe our definition of "basics" is different, but I'd guess maybe a week of constant use might get close. Most users don't even realize what Emacs is with even that much use. >application. You don't sound at all like a heretic; rather, it >sounds like you're just really lazy. Emacs is a great editor >(and a lot more). But, yeah, you have to learn a few new things >in order to use it. Rather than wasting time and bandwidth >whining about how *hard* it is (because it really isn't all that >hard), why not just spend some time learning? There is lazy... and there is lazy. Lazy as in uncaring about getting work done is one thing. But lazy as in first working to make work easier is is different. Emacs is ideal to make work easier. But emulating inferior editors is not the way to do it. -- Floyd L. Davidson Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@barrow.com