From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Chong Yidong Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [drew.adams@oracle.com: No doc for cl stuff even after loading cl?] Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 12:35:06 -0400 Message-ID: <8764jve5z9.fsf@stupidchicken.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1148488555 18187 80.91.229.2 (24 May 2006 16:35:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 16:35:55 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed May 24 18:35:54 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FiwKR-000758-W0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 24 May 2006 18:35:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FiwKR-0001wV-DA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 24 May 2006 12:35:23 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1FiwKF-0001wQ-7a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 24 May 2006 12:35:11 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FiwKE-0001wI-Qu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 24 May 2006 12:35:10 -0400 Original-Received: from [18.72.1.2] (helo=south-station-annex.mit.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA:32) (Exim 4.52) id 1FiwOi-0001il-Dv; Wed, 24 May 2006 12:39:48 -0400 Original-Received: from grand-central-station.mit.edu (GRAND-CENTRAL-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.82]) by south-station-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k4OGZ9aY017010; Wed, 24 May 2006 12:35:09 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from outgoing-legacy.mit.edu (OUTGOING-LEGACY.MIT.EDU [18.7.22.104]) by grand-central-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k4OGZ94v016114; Wed, 24 May 2006 12:35:09 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from cyd (SYDNEYPACIFIC-FOUR-TWENTY-FIVE.MIT.EDU [18.95.6.170]) ) by outgoing-legacy.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.4) with ESMTP id k4OGZ5a8008272; Wed, 24 May 2006 12:35:06 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from cyd by cyd with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1FiwKA-0003hC-00; Wed, 24 May 2006 12:35:06 -0400 Original-To: rms@gnu.org In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sat, 13 May 2006 22:39:30 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Spam-Score: -1.215 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:55203 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > I agree that this is a bug. Can someone work on it, then ack? Having looked into this, I think the only way around the current behavior would be to have cl.el load all the cl-* libraries instead of autoloading individual functions (which is Bad), or pasting all the documentation strings in the cl-* files into cl.el for autoloading (which is Silly). I don't think this is worth fixing. > From: "Drew Adams" > Subject: No doc for cl stuff even after loading cl? > To: "Emacs-Pretest-Bug" > > emacs -Q > > C-h f flet finds no match. Normal > M-x load-library cl > C-h f flet then gives this: > > flet is an autoloaded Lisp macro in `cl-macs'. > [Arg list not available until function definition is loaded.] > > Not documented. > > That doesn't seem right. What's a user to do, chase down the various > cl libraries (in this case cl-macs.el, presumably) in order to get > doc? > > If a user is asking for doc, we should give it to him/her, instead of > saying that is not available until the function definition is > loaded. This looks like Emacs is deliberately being uncooperative, > making the user jump through hoops to get what s?he asks for. If we > want to avoid loading large libraries, then perhaps we should split > off the doc in such cases so we can provide it without loading > everything.