From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Johannes Weiner Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Release plans Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 00:58:57 +0200 Message-ID: <8763q35hla.fsf@skyscraper.fehenstaub.lan> References: <87zlnffw11.fsf@rattlesnake.com> <87r68r61db.fsf@skyscraper.fehenstaub.lan> <877iajwbvv.fsf@rattlesnake.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1218754775 27412 80.91.229.12 (14 Aug 2008 22:59:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:59:35 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: bob@rattlesnake.com (Robert J. Chassell) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 15 01:00:26 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KTlnu-0004Lv-DK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 15 Aug 2008 01:00:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46104 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KTlmy-0005aq-3v for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:59:28 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KTlmt-0005Ym-Kr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:59:23 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KTlms-0005XV-LQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:59:23 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=58951 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KTlms-0005XQ-Hm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:59:22 -0400 Original-Received: from saeurebad.de ([85.214.36.134]:46507) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KTlmr-00017W-SQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:59:22 -0400 Original-Received: by saeurebad.de (Postfix, from userid 107) id B755C2F00CC; Fri, 15 Aug 2008 00:59:19 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (83-221-69-159.dynamic.primacom.net [83.221.69.159]) by saeurebad.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED6C52F00C8; Fri, 15 Aug 2008 00:59:18 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <877iajwbvv.fsf@rattlesnake.com> (Robert J. Chassell's message of "Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:00:04 +0000") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.1.3 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:102469 Archived-At: Hi, bob@rattlesnake.com (Robert J. Chassell) writes: > bob@rattlesnake.com (Robert J. Chassell) writes: > > > > Whether one loads proprietary modules into the kernel is a personal > > > decision and I don't like deciding for other people. > > > > No; it is not a personal decision. When you load proprietary modules, > > you are telling those who pay attention that you do not mind restricting > > yourself. > > What has sentence a to do with sentence b? > > You are not being personal when you make a decision involving others -- > perhaps you are thinking, `I am the one making the decision'. That is > true. But the consequences don't involve you alone. You are telling > others that you accept this sort of restriction. That is critical and > what I was trying to say. Okay, if you make such a decision, you are automatically a role model for others. But whether you take that decision away from others is a philosophical attitude. I wouldn't choose to do so but I would also not trade software power for potential harm the law already protects against, as Stephen Turnbull explained it does. IMHO, the better approach is a psychological one. Yes, explain to people why you consider it bad for them and their environment to do certain things. Education is good. Spreading the understanding that it is stupid and self- and others-harming to use proprietary software if you think that this is the case and I am fine with that. I share this opinion, by the way, just to be clear, and I also explain this to people using non-free software. But I think leaving useful features (that are not restricting the user in any way) out of the software is a bad decision. Even worse when the law would already protect from abuse. And just to not go into a loop here again, I am aware that I could theoretically fork GNU Emacs and implement the feature I want. But I care about GNU Emacs itself and I wouldn't spend so much time to explain my standpoint if I didn't. Hannes