From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r99650: Put scroll-bar on right by default on UNIX. Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:36:45 +0100 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <87634zvuki.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <87ocitw2dl.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87zl2cmufp.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <224s67-o31.ln1@news.eternal-september.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1268577441 7699 80.91.229.12 (14 Mar 2010 14:37:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 14:37:21 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Mar 14 15:37:17 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NqowP-00018C-B1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:37:17 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47063 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NqowO-0003Jx-OH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 10:37:16 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NqowJ-0003Ji-8r for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 10:37:11 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=53160 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NqowH-0003JX-4S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 10:37:10 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NqowF-0001wq-JQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 10:37:09 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:50169) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NqowF-0001wb-8f for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 10:37:07 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NqowB-00013K-A2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:37:03 +0100 Original-Received: from pik.hrz.tu-chemnitz.de ([134.109.6.1]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:37:03 +0100 Original-Received: from dak by pik.hrz.tu-chemnitz.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:37:03 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 37 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: pik.hrz.tu-chemnitz.de X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.92 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:2IYfCfGKYtcNPnuZhNtxlrE2Huk= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:121951 Archived-At: Richard Riley writes: > Richard Stallman writes: > >> I, and most users I suspect, would want the scrollbar on the GUI version >> in the same place as the HUGE majority for GUI "X" applications. On the >> right. >> >> Why do you prefer it on the right? >> In what way is that advantageous or convenient for you? >> > > Because its in the same position as all other apps on my > desktop. Arbitrary positioning of any UI element is silly and the > reasons are well documented. The positioning is not arbitrary. You might with more reason argue that arbitrary bindings of keys are silly, and that Emacs should have the same bindings as Wordpad. Because there is some arbitrariness involved with the choice of keybindings. But the scrollbar is on the left for a reason: _if_ you use the mouse for editing, you'll use it more often than not on the left (until Eli's work gets merged). And the larger the windows are made horizontally, the more of a nuisance it is to move the mouse. In addition, if you use Athena-style "proportional" scrollbars where you click next to the line you want to scroll to the top, you can't usefully aim when the scrollbar is on the right when the text does not run on for a full line (like when editing shellscripts). We have proportional scrolling when compiling without toolkit, and with Xaw. And Xaw has the default scrollbar on the left for other applications. It is really a pity that toolbars are either functional and well-designed or pretty, but never both. -- David Kastrup