From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ivan Kanis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs learning curve Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 20:01:57 +0200 Message-ID: <876307s8dm.fsf@kanis.fr> References: <4C3B6A8A.80105@gmx.de> <87lj9ayp2f.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <201007221414.39227.tassilo@member.fsf.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279827238 11491 80.91.229.12 (22 Jul 2010 19:33:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:33:58 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Chong Yidong , Miles Bader , Lennart Borgman , Tom , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Tassilo Horn Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 22 21:33:54 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oc1Wk-0003Rn-1n for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 21:33:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36619 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Oc1Wj-0004uN-DO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:33:53 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=58892 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Oc05x-0002K8-FK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:02:10 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oc05w-0002hm-0C for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:02:09 -0400 Original-Received: from kanis.fr ([75.127.73.245]:4864) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oc05t-0002gS-5t; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:02:05 -0400 Original-Received: from [89.83.137.164] (helo=tao) by kanis.fr with esmtpsa (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Oc05o-0006f7-Qw; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:02:01 -0400 Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAAB5QTFRF IBkXUxMTOCwoTC4qcUY8iFxQmmper31txpaJ/v/8aKZ1oAAAAcVJREFUOMt100tu2zAQAFDCXnUZ oAcIqG68LZULVLQBbwuSiffm6AIRRyeotAySJoVu2+FPpJWWC3/4NKOZocSW/yxWfnJ2+Bdwzhj7 8gleWVy7DXC2rkMNr2V/zRbghXIwthf3VbIA9Ffc71vZCSFyCEsBggtNS8ludwvfmhYA0Vn9o4DP zMWxR7+cPWzAYFzwM0ModtdmcDbDS6i/hT7L+RZof5yCXGrYe5jn2YO6BYMjgY+51tCIAqHgBLwR pwLnGuRjAKyBJkuN4yd4U92uCY1vUr2D/c5b8DuxyQwfOHUeaLqDJhnkkuGXbB56h2C1IVBdgncc bBi6feroa9B6jUDojnQPQKupbyXyeeCE1oT7Oqrt+SnfY3mkiyGA/3AmD3H5g32CcBx6hY8pRkwJ 9PpcjRGobUfprFnhAa1vepwcgMOhwG+pdSgKHFU9HAvoAH6XUl7lDUCCq5Qb6GMbVm3Aj++qDYCt wdBc/YHgOFCmS3mjDMRcSE2qY4E3Q3PVIQRQmeodNH4QEbRUFZzW+VotzwX4yTcRTySOML1qjcE5 hTirVqDHkMAP0PjAywp3d18JZtqzvr9zDYD+GaSKtE6Zlr/DLPNFmOcvBAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== In-Reply-To: <201007221414.39227.tassilo@member.fsf.org> (Tassilo Horn's message of "Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:14:38 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:33:48 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127658 Archived-At: Tassilo Horn wrote: > And we would need to define new guidelines for modes. These > recommendations are also in conflict with CUA: ... snip stuff about C-c .. > But since old emacs users and users happy with the emacs way would like > to stick to the default bindings, we would have to somehow invend > conventions that fit for both Emacs and CUAmacs. I'm pretty sure that's > near to impossible if you want to preserve a rest of mnemonics and > consistency. C-c is addressed in CUA mode, it only does copy if transient mode is on. You can still get C-c in transient by pressing C-c twice. It's technically possible for emacs to have sane key binding, it's just political not do so. On a somewhat related note emacs added long line visual motion. It was turned on by default possibly creating confusion for veteran users. The same old user can quickly find that setting line-move-visual to nil gets her the old behavior. Why can't we do that for CUA mode? I think that politics get in the way. Have a nice day, -- Ivan Kanis http://kanis.fr Seriousness is the only refuge of the shallow. -- Oscar Wilde