From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] trunk r115470: eww: exit and close actions Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 14:36:56 -0500 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <8761qso84n.fsf@flea.lifelogs.com> References: <87haadq3pn.fsf@flea.lifelogs.com> <878uvoq0md.fsf@flea.lifelogs.com> Reply-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1386963366 4806 80.91.229.3 (13 Dec 2013 19:36:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 19:36:06 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 13 20:36:11 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VrYWw-0002fg-7g for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 13 Dec 2013 20:36:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44494 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VrYWv-0001pq-Rg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 13 Dec 2013 14:36:09 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55961) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VrYWm-0001ph-Q5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Dec 2013 14:36:06 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VrYWh-0002Px-6r for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Dec 2013 14:36:00 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:39341) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VrYWh-0002Pt-09 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Dec 2013 14:35:55 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VrYWf-0002Vb-Rf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Dec 2013 20:35:53 +0100 Original-Received: from c-98-229-61-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net ([98.229.61.72]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 2013 20:35:53 +0100 Original-Received: from tzz by c-98-229-61-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 2013 20:35:53 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Lines: 53 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-98-229-61-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" Mail-Copies-To: never User-Agent: Gnus/5.130008 (Ma Gnus v0.8) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:BYI08JlQ36ACuQ2DBow2SKtkuY4= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:166377 Archived-At: On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 10:06:41 -0500 Stefan Monnier wrote: >> Web browsing is a separate UI domain from the other UI domains Emacs >> covers. The UI for navigation, input, and even scrolling is different. >> It's most like an Info file but there are fundamental differences (no >> clear hierarchy, interactive, etc.) So my idea was to make web browsing >> in Emacs more like web browsing outside Emacs, and I thought my changes >> were a step in that direction. SM> I view it as trying to lie to the user ;-) All computing is lying to the user, so I am OK with that. >> The idea was to separate "close" from "exit" even if the current >> implementation doesn't do it perfectly, because tha separation is >> typical in the "web browsing" UI domain. SM> AFAIK "close" should mean "close the current tab", and "exit" should SM> mean "exit the application, closing all tabs and killing the process". Right. SM> Some of the problems I see in the context of eww: SM> - eww doesn't have tabs. SM> - eww-exit doesn't exit the application. SM> - eww-exit does not close all the eww buffers/tabs/windows you might SM> have opened in the current Emacs session. SM> - eww can display a web page multiple times in different windows, so the SM> meaning of "close the tab" is unclear. I agree the current implementation is suboptimal but your problem is with the fundamental idea of separating "close" from "exit." So unless you want to separate them at some level or at least acknowledge the difference between them, there's no point in discussing the items above and we should instead focus on improving `quit-window' or the eww equivalent thereof. SM> I really see it as trying to put a square peg in a round hole. SM> And I really don't see the benefit since eww users will be familiar with SM> Emacs anyway, so it's not like we'd impose them some new concepts they SM> shouldn't need to know. OK, so what would you like (and let's wait for Lars to comment before we take action, if you want to revert)? - revert back to `q' being `quit-window', no "close" or "exit" concepts - implement some way to quit all eww windows for privacy and security - implement "close" and "exit" differently but still try to separate them - implement "close" and "exit" separately with different names - some combination? something else? Thanks Ted