From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tilman Ahr Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: .emacs poser Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 07:27:29 +0100 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Message-ID: <8761qo56we.fsf@ID-264037.user.dfncis.de> References: <87wqj4p720.fsf@nl106-137-194.student.uu.se> <87fvpsp3oy.fsf@nl106-137-194.student.uu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1387266142 26389 80.91.229.3 (17 Dec 2013 07:42:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 07:42:22 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 17 08:42:25 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VspIM-00048i-On for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 17 Dec 2013 08:42:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60037 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VspIM-0007jy-EP for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 17 Dec 2013 02:42:22 -0500 X-Received: by 10.14.179.134 with SMTP id h6mr864498eem.7.1387261720781; Mon, 16 Dec 2013 22:28:40 -0800 (PST) Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!w6no6775647wiw.0!news-out.google.com!bd4ni11835wib.0!nntp.google.com!feeder1.cambriumusenet.nl!feed.tweaknews.nl!195.62.100.243.MISMATCH!newsfeed0.kamp.net!newsfeed.kamp.net!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 135 Injection-Info: mx05.eternal-september.org; posting-host="ed7909b8729eb7e6a863cbca3dea9e47"; logging-data="11363"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+WMyjxjqFjPHpTi/dVyMy2R5hkRhOBsgQ=" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.3 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:lrBdWsnKoU42dZ7qUWkTufiMmfY= sha1:miBifwr67WmHCGWCBKTavc9rvww= Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:202772 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 02:42:13 -0500 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:95043 Archived-At: Emanuel Berg writes: > Dale Snell writes: [...] >> I can't speak for European keyboards. > > The US layout is better for programming [...] Arguably, but for most layouts and programming languages, that probably hosds true. > Semi-colon, and all the brackets, are better placed on the US layout > keyboard, I'm not convinced of that, at least for the DE-DE keyboard layout. > and for whatever language-specific chars you need, there is the > compose key. Although I'd *hate* to have to use that to get Ä,Ö,Ü and ß. I use those *a lot* when writing in German, and the DE-DE layout makes them accessible by a single Keystroke. I do have the „dead keys“ option enabled (to make typing the usual accents for french, at least, feasible without much ado) and remap CAPSLOCK[1] to the compose key, nonetheless. > Which by the way is another solution that I think is > much better than setting this up in Emacs. Yes. Definitely. But there are (coff, coff) Operating Systems that make using a compose key hard, if not impossible… >> and the ever popular copyright (©), trademark (™), >> and registered trademark signs (®). > > Serious? Depending on the area one works in, and considering how the US civil justice system works(fsvo), I could see that. Personally, I know how to create © and ® on my keyboard, how I'd get the [TM] symbol, I have no Idea. I believe I recall it's trivial with a compose key, and should be doable without, but I don't need that symbol other than for ironic remarks on usenet, and there, [TM] does the trick quite satisfactorily. >> If I need anything more demanding, like en and em >> dashes, Those, I use frequently. And real quote marks as demanded by German typographic conventions. I don't even need the compose key for them. Other than the en-dash… >> or primes instead of quotes, I'll fire up a text processor > > A word processor? Like OpenOffice or Word? I'd guess he actually meant a text processor, like TeX/LaTeX >> and go that way. Of course, in a purely text forum, >> like this, someone would undoubtedly complain if I >> were to attach the entire message as a PDF. > > Yes. PDF is for things to be *printed*, like manuals, > or scientific work with need for special notation. Actually, PDF allows for very neat features used for on-screen-presentation and even has some rather sophisticated features for dealing with textual matter. Those are just aspects of that format that never took off. So, in everyday use: Yes, it's mainly used as a format for well-defined visual representation of … data. And in this day and age of the paperless office, these are usually printed out. I had a job interview last week where the interviewer had my e-mail with all the relevant stuff for my application (CV, Certificates, References and all that) as a PDF on his PCs screen right in front of him, but still printed it out. On good paper, using a colour ink-jet printer that went to photo mode, because there was a photo on the CV (most german employers really appreciate a CV with a decent photo. No idea why). That whole printout went straight to the bin fifteen minutes later, btw. >> There are certain organizations that want their >> documents written in a certain format, which may >> include Pilcrow and Section marks, and other such >> things. Happily, I don't deal with those. (Again, >> I'd use LaTeX or Groff for that.) > > Groff! Wow, you are a man (pun) of many surprises. Is > that used outside of the Unix manpages world? It used to be. And I remember coming across a couple of projects where it was used to nicely format simple textual data in an automated way even a few years ago… > LaTeX is great obviously. I would drop the word > processor and use Emacs (or Vim) + LaTeX. Wellyes. No. For a one-off, one to ten pages, needs to look somewhat presentable thingie, I'll take LO, thank you. If it actually needs to look *good*, or be reusable for different documents with a similar layout (visually orientated), I'll use Scribus, or whatever other DTP-Software I can get my hands on. (Restaurant menues would be one example that comes to mind) If it's about presenting a large(ish) amount of text in a well-typeset, neat way (Books and the like), or about automating stuff (like generating invoices from a database), TeX/LaTeX rules supreme. >> That's limiting yourself. If you need accented >> characters, learn how to enter them in a general way, >> not just specific words. > > It is not about *ability*, it is about *speed* and > *ergonomics* and *limiting the mental effort* when > doing a routine thing, as typing. Yes. I like abbrev-mode for larger projects. Takes a while to get that up to speed, but when it's ready, it flies. > To memorize and type some four or five hit combination just to get a > goofy char that is (almost) never used doesn't make sense. That combination of a non-US layout with dead keys makes most of what I use regularly a breeze. For really rare stuff, Compose works well. It's not really that hard to remember the more usual combinations. Footnotes: [1] I have no idea why anybody would have a use for that key's original function on anything but a mechanic typewriter. Other than SHOUTING YOUR LUNGS OUT…