From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tassilo Horn Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Apologia for bzr Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2014 10:44:17 +0100 Message-ID: <8761q18kni.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.org> References: <20140102095347.6834E381D0C@snark.thyrsus.com> <87fvp6bdd9.fsf_-_@ktab.red-bean.com> <83wqiixqbb.fsf@gnu.org> <20140102172804.GB13245@thyrsus.com> <83vby2xo6x.fsf@gnu.org> <20140102183432.GB13506@thyrsus.com> <83sit6xgfg.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1388742276 14281 80.91.229.3 (3 Jan 2014 09:44:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2014 09:44:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, kfogel@red-bean.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 03 10:44:42 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Vz1J4-0008GM-8O for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 03 Jan 2014 10:44:42 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48842 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vz1J1-0002aJ-Gs for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 03 Jan 2014 04:44:39 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47844) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vz1It-0002a2-RR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Jan 2014 04:44:37 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vz1Io-0004GM-HX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Jan 2014 04:44:31 -0500 Original-Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.27]:54637) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vz1Ii-0004Fw-RG; Fri, 03 Jan 2014 04:44:20 -0500 Original-Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.45]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id 225AD20B76; Fri, 3 Jan 2014 04:44:20 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 03 Jan 2014 04:44:20 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s=smtpout; bh=nWIA0U3PFP31g67es8sRgzVGKpw=; b=LhiKmXGWNf9Z9PR7Xj6Vc+u65pqV jUyfphr7WZn0ifFUPbodrGiAd03Ki9CevXg1C23+fCytNcTrENbhk+SP+uIvnxaH yxDaziKVOdyKOrXZF6LC3Iiqm5O+7xAEkyA2oMZorfoZmcAXVwpVZeKx0rw7vhv5 BwKgDww6fLdjcJk= X-Sasl-enc: eXmZQ2z94BVsQ6ds3gyo3+ovHpvV/e6cs9C7oBM8dEGO 1388742259 Original-Received: from thinkpad.tsdh.org (unknown [91.67.164.26]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id F37CB68009C; Fri, 3 Jan 2014 04:44:18 -0500 (EST) Mail-Followup-To: Eli Zaretskii , esr@thyrsus.com, kfogel@red-bean.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <83sit6xgfg.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 02 Jan 2014 22:44:03 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.130008 (Ma Gnus v0.8) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 66.111.4.27 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:167132 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > They are impenetrable. The very first words will get you in a "WTF?" > mode. All the terminology that's referred to in the git command man pages is defined in one central place, the gitglossary(7) man page. But in fact, basically every git command man page should list that under SEE ALSO but doesn't. > Just try to read the first sentences of any random man page through a > newbie's eyes. No term is ever explained before used -- do these guys > even understand what it means to _explain_ things? With respect to newby friendliness: probably bzr is easier to grasp if you haven't used a (d)VCS before, but in the presence of extremely popular sites such as gitorious and github, most potential (Emacs) contributors have gotten in touch with git anyway. That's the case for me, and I sometimes mess up my bzr checkout just because I naively transfer my usual git habits and workflow to bzr. Of course, I shouldn't do that, but that's probably a trap many people coming from git to bzr will fall in. Another strong point of git is getting support. When I started with it, I sometimes messed up my checkouts just as I'm messing up things with bzr nowadays. But just by explaining what I've done on #git@irc.freenode.net (right now there are ~1000 users in there so there's almost certainly someone with very deep git knowledge) I was able to recover within minutes. With bzr, I usually ask here on emacs-devel because the bzr support channel is quite unresponsive nowadays, and then you, Eli, will give me the answers I'm looking for (thanks again!). But nevertheless, with git you can really get 24/7 handholding if you want to. Bye, Tassilo