From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs terminology (not again!?) [was: Apologia for bzr] Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2014 20:38:38 +0100 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <8761ptkksh.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <877gact76s.fsf@gnu.org> <34c8c13b-c5c6-4e5a-9248-b09d5d1936da@default> <87eh4hkq6c.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1389296338 14601 80.91.229.3 (9 Jan 2014 19:38:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 19:38:58 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 09 20:39:05 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W1LRZ-00075z-0U for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 20:39:05 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53822 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1LRY-0000Wm-L9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 14:39:04 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42854) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1LRQ-0000Vk-SX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 14:39:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1LRL-0005EP-1G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 14:38:56 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:46536) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1LRK-0005EH-Qi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 14:38:50 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W1LRJ-0006Y3-4x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 20:38:49 +0100 Original-Received: from x2f51f78.dyn.telefonica.de ([2.245.31.120]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 20:38:49 +0100 Original-Received: from dak by x2f51f78.dyn.telefonica.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 20:38:49 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 30 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: x2f51f78.dyn.telefonica.de X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:pqZKP3JqkjRwvrvYFrO9OMv3FUM= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:167965 Archived-At: Tom writes: > David Kastrup gnu.org> writes: >> >> It's more like "it's unavoidable to provide difficulties to learning >> because it can do a lot, and when a lot is easily accessible, you'll >> have stuff getting in your hair accidentally". > > Arbitrary roadblocks can be removed, though. > > For example, yank is not a superior term to paste, so paste could be > used instead. One unnecessary difference less. You mean, unnecessary similarity. This has a C-y keyboard binding, and vi uses y and Y bindings for yanking as well. > Emacs provides enough material to learn without these arbitrary > (legacy) differences, so these should be eliminated where possible. The problem is that they are not "arbitrary" but deeply ingrained into the choice of keyboard sequences. And C-x and C-c are pretty much the most reliably accessible control characters, so they make good sense for starting multiple keystroke sequences. What _is_ somewhat annoying in contrast is the positioning of C-b C-n C-p and C-f. The hjkl sequences of vi or C-s C-x C-e C-d sequences of WordStar make more sense. -- David Kastrup