From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On language-dependent defaults for character-folding Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 20:28:40 +0100 Message-ID: <8760xtsp7b.fsf@wanadoo.es> References: <87mvr9wxqz.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87io1xwq1e.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87vb5wvzfz.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87io1wt4cc.fsf@wanadoo.es> <8737syoima.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <871t8iu277.fsf@wanadoo.es> <83d1s28kvh.fsf@gnu.org> <87r3gis7sm.fsf@wanadoo.es> <83twle71xy.fsf@gnu.org> <87io1us0te.fsf@wanadoo.es> <83pow26svf.fsf@gnu.org> <87a8n5srbp.fsf@wanadoo.es> <83d1s17npz.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1455305361 24200 80.91.229.3 (12 Feb 2016 19:29:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 19:29:21 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 12 20:29:06 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aUJOs-0007Dm-Ju for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 20:29:06 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35662 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aUJOs-0000BN-2J for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 14:29:06 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49104) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aUJOd-0000A5-7o for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 14:28:52 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aUJOa-00068u-1i for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 14:28:51 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:37350) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aUJOZ-00068b-Qs for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 14:28:47 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aUJOY-0006zY-NB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 20:28:46 +0100 Original-Received: from 173.red-83-43-64.dynamicip.rima-tde.net ([83.43.64.173]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 20:28:46 +0100 Original-Received: from ofv by 173.red-83-43-64.dynamicip.rima-tde.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2016 20:28:46 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 54 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 173.red-83-43-64.dynamicip.rima-tde.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:LqmlqZG2JR7nYbueZavZ+cXllYI= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:199831 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> > But in the case of 2 characters, a literal n is present in the buffer, >> > so not finding it would be a miss, don't you think? >> >> Then you are not thinking as an Spaniard, but as someone who is versed >> on character representations by computers. > > Aren't there Spaniards who are also versed on character > representations by computers? Maybe less than the 0.1% of the population, but yes. Even those may prefer a default that works for them as Spaniards rather that a default that works for them as users familiarised with text encoding. >> In practice, n matching ñ (the composed one) will not be a big issue, >> since it will happen rarely. Same for the rest of compositions that >> looks like ñ but are not "the" ñ. If someone complains, we can explain >> what the problem is and that we opted for handling such compositions as >> groups of characters. > > So you do think this, too, is not a problem? Do we have resources for setting a default that works as the expected by each and every user all the time? (If possible at all) >> > What about finding ⒜ when searching for a, don't you want to find >> > that? This is not specific to any language. >> >> That would be nice, sometimes. If I search for (a), should it match ⒜? > > I don't know. What do you think? It depends. It's like `a' matching `á' but on steroids. Sometimes I'll find it convenient and sometimes inconvenient. Those are different cases than doing something that is plain wrong for a set of users and convenient for others. >> But we are digressing. Eli, you are missing the point. If you wish to >> set Emacs defaults as per the convenience of people who think of text as >> a series of codes at the expense of breaking basic expectations of those >> who see text as... text, well, frankly, I don't think it is a good >> decision. > > I was trying to develop a dialogue which will help me and you > understand where your resistance begins and where it ends. I think > it's important to do that to better understand the issues, but if you > don't want that, we can stop any moment. I think that I explained it many times, but here it goes again: character folding, as implemented today, might be convenient for some users, but a glaring bug for others, so its default status (on the release) should be chosen on accordance. What's so difficult to understand about that?