From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Alex Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Summary and next steps for (package-initialize) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 15:24:00 -0600 Message-ID: <8760df9tzj.fsf@lylat> References: <83tw12cocz.fsf@gnu.org> <87mv6uxkig.fsf@lylat> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1503437062 4678 195.159.176.226 (22 Aug 2017 21:24:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 21:24:22 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Radon Rosborough , Emacs developers To: Yuri Khan Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 22 23:24:16 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dkGek-0000pc-Sj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 23:24:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57884 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dkGer-0006aN-8z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 17:24:21 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39177) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dkGek-0006Zo-I0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 17:24:15 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dkGeg-0008Ix-JW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 17:24:14 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-io0-x242.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4001:c06::242]:37355) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dkGeg-0008IK-Dn; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 17:24:10 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-io0-x242.google.com with SMTP id m40so232700ioi.4; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 14:24:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=yM26lipKwJTjX0cYm2jvuebCtVry0J8aNW7pMvL98zY=; b=pP5tFu26GMFR6uJYyqtbH5kB7SvkPEiZymLW/dn7Iy6cdzMrcwNyyCftD1wNPG++8y LI/0KVPHwrMkW+IO2GIp0NrZUsNesns3sHaEabJZ14ZzTFU2OIrRPt/VxiyOt3T/HWhH ocKNV0z1eKy6ioxSA92Gve++eN6VFL1yJ5SwMTkEnsG3N488JYr/F9ZzkjLqX0veTvt4 HeJDrWD5PCTmvQG5ElT5e1bD4WooR3PzCtOJfQNPhAhvQOnwJtoSQHfvs/2SscQoWRXl JKJTJHFBmesoVrTUj5XwyeksnoPKDeFjuK67htsOVpLebJb02Akk8ay3O5+Nv/yO5bTK F2dQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=yM26lipKwJTjX0cYm2jvuebCtVry0J8aNW7pMvL98zY=; b=lWvBtKi23bik5l6MacE/bTzDhHBun2kW4yPbUm5sVrjqTiz0DgXx91WXg/QKsQtA+Q ZFz0AH1YEbS+mMMciYp2oBq/A5MdUV0i/wjoAlVOE/c8AnymedpmzpZ9ptGQQaf2/6TU LNwqUot5Eeg0C4yNIu1QtIUXNxOYbEREcBcuFRl1r6awDNk8sULZxELk/r8PAlqUieTY Mokfhpxe2saOhAGCrCk9qIplbEmmLe5j35VuhHn7y5ktM7oQNiWxfKZEHYJ4lwyF3wxU bk846EaPXf0jSrhOR4Snxs9qm5n+2+Q+eAQCERX4cy0nlfdb1L3wq+35s6i3mLIRz7VF xB0A== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5gKkaxGdAwzcSsCAtkVbQef7fuC1R4ehHk0jvsMweofFLg0osrQ 7tkTbpg5lEtLA1d3 X-Received: by 10.107.166.136 with SMTP id p130mr273396ioe.89.1503437047986; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 14:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from lylat (S010664777d9cebe3.ss.shawcable.net. [70.64.85.59]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 79sm489517iof.1.2017.08.22.14.24.06 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Tue, 22 Aug 2017 14:24:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Yuri Khan's message of "Sun, 20 Aug 2017 23:46:55 +0700") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4001:c06::242 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:217704 Archived-At: Yuri Khan writes: > On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 11:37 PM, Alex wrote: > >> There could be a link (and perhaps keybinding) on the splash >> screen/tutorial, where Emacs could ask the user a few questions and >> create an init file for the user. Possible questions include: >> >> Would you like this file in ~/ or ~/.emacs.d (.emacs vs init.el)? >> >> Would you like to change some defaults? (This could help out with the >> (IMO correct) notion that Emacs has some poor defaults while leaving >> those alone for users that don't use this template.) >> >> Would you like to use a separate file for `custom-file'? >> >> Would you like to set up the package system? >> >> >> I believe that this would be a step forward in accommodating new users. > > This amounts to asking the new user to perform customization up front. > A new user will not have enough knowledge to answer these questions. That would depend on the questions asked. I don't think asking "would you like your init file in your home directory or in a separate directory" or "what is your preferred tab size" is asking too much. The other questions might be more palatable if they deal at a higher level of abstraction (e.g., don't mention Customize or package.el directly). > Further, he or she may feel intimidated and choose a different editor, > one that works out of the box. This procedure would be completely opt-in. I agree that it shouldn't offer too much customization (or they'd be there forever), at least by default. I don't think that such a procedure would intimidate users, at least not more than the current built-in options available. There's already something similar on the splash screen: a link to a Customize buffer about "Initialization". > It is better to have reasonably sane defaults and let the user > customize when he or she is ready. I agree, but I don't see how that necessarily contradicts with my proposal. Even if the defaults are improved, I still believe having an opt-in procedure to make a skeleton init file would make it easier for new users to adopt Emacs.