From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: torys.anderson@gmail.com (Tory S. Anderson) Subject: Re: Org citations, CSL and citeproc-el Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2018 10:02:06 -0700 Message-ID: <87608gme7l.fsf@byu.edu> References: <87wp0wuyyv.fsf@gmail.com> <87fu7k45a8.fsf@aquinas.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52413) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eXVNq-0003J2-4u for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2018 12:02:19 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eXVNk-0000gv-24 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2018 12:02:18 -0500 Received: from mail-pl0-x236.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c01::236]:43701) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eXVNj-0000fg-RI for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2018 12:02:11 -0500 Received: by mail-pl0-x236.google.com with SMTP id z5so3357468plo.10 for ; Fri, 05 Jan 2018 09:02:10 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87fu7k45a8.fsf@aquinas.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> (Richard Lawrence's message of "Fri, 05 Jan 2018 08:52:15 -0800") List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" To: Richard Lawrence Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Simonyi =?utf-8?Q?Andr=C3=A1s?= Just a second on this; it's a fantastic and useful idea. Richard Lawrence writes: > Dear Simonyi, > > Simonyi András writes: > >> a few days ago I've released the first public version of >> citeproc-el (https://github.com/andras-simonyi/citeproc-el), a >> CSL 1.01 citation processor library for Emacs. > > Wow! I don't know if you are aware, but we had discussed the > possibility of building something like this on the list a few > years back. At the time it seemed like a lot more work than > anyone was willing to do, and so the effort stalled. Thanks so > much for working on this -- it looks like you've done a ton of > work! > >> The resulting link syntax is rather cumbersome so I'd like to >> ask your opinion about introducing an alternative org-mode >> citation syntax that handles all of these elements. One option >> would be to use something very similar to pandoc's citation >> syntax (which I tried to follow as much as possible in the cite >> link descriptions of citeproc-orgref). > > We had a (very) long discussion about implementing a new > citation syntax for Org in the spring of 2015. Most of it took > place in February and March; see: > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2015-02/threads.html > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2015-03/threads.html > > And here is how I summarized the state of that discussion in > June: > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2015-06/msg00426.html > > The upshot was that we came to agreement on quite a few points > about what citation syntax should look like, and those points > have been implemented in Org syntax in the wip-cite branch of > the Org repo. (This branch is now long out of date and at the > very least in need of a rebase onto current master, I suspect.) > It would be really great to get things moving again. Using your > code to provide citation processing during Org export for the > syntax that's already been implemented would be the place to > start. > > There are other aspects of the syntax we agreed on that are not > implemented yet; as I recall, the idea was to get a minimal > agreeable subset working, and then add to it based on real-world > experience and feedback. > >> A more general question I'd like to raise how (or whether) you >> see citeproc-el's (and CSL's) potential place in the org-mode >> ecosystem. There are a lot of directions which the further >> development could take (BibLaTeX support, citeproc-YAML >> bibliographies, CSL editing and CSL extensions etc.) and I'd be >> grateful to receive your input on which ones I should focus >> on. > > Here's my two cents on this. From what I recall about the > discussion (it's hard to believe it's already been almost three > years...), I would focus on two things: > > 1) BibLaTeX support. Most Org users who want citation support > want it primarily for LaTeX export, and BibLaTeX provides a good > model of what we should try to achieve in Org citation support. > > 2) org-bibtex support. Org-bibtex is a library that represents > citation data via Org's property syntax. Some people use this > and it would be great to have it integrated with the new > citation syntax and export. That would provide an end-to-end > citation solution that is completely native to Org and Emacs. > > Again, thanks for jump-starting this effort! I look forward to > contributing to it this spring.