From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: hw Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Some developement questions Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2018 20:25:32 +0200 Organization: my virtual residence Message-ID: <875zzphy77.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> References: <87sh36inql.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <8336v6cvem.fsf@gnu.org> <8736v6icgt.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83tvnmb958.fsf@gnu.org> <877ekigiiw.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <837ekhb2me.fsf@gnu.org> <87zhxcbmtr.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83in409lub.fsf@gnu.org> <871sanb71j.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <87k1oeaofu.fsf@ada> <20180825103413.gbm5stsl67j6weow@Ergus> <87k1od7vzf.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1535900107 2699 195.159.176.226 (2 Sep 2018 14:55:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2018 14:55:07 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) Cc: spacibba@aol.com, flexibeast@gmail.com, Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel To: Radon Rosborough Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 02 16:55:03 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fwTmI-0000Vj-6H for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 16:55:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41261 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fwToN-0003SV-HF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 10:57:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59172) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fwTnS-0003R1-9i for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 10:56:15 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fwTnR-0006SS-FX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 10:56:14 -0400 Original-Received: from mo6-p01-ob.smtp.rzone.de ([2a01:238:20a:202:5301::12]:26287) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fwTnP-0006Qc-Pv; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 10:56:12 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1535900170; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=adminart.net; h=Sender:References:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=hIiFa3F0DahuxyT26Kkluey/NaQaNGCMk8KYa3UuANk=; b=W530YcaWk6dYWdvIENl2tuGYxY5Sdiy7pd3jzNoUDPROwYO7/86ld6LPmmIOumAJ2d c/smcguSg1zrsyFb8jktRLCg6ztXQhvz7FyJLAb6JBQF2kqobxGktTW0cfHNdXcdKGXP rb8rHHYWFSqA4KlcBLinHum0tVi6Wp1yb42Ua7pczQpZSe6nzXyiz6GMQAQHDYqA/pyJ f2Y+T3LT7W4tSn9QH/Q7xFMA7YcGST9RWvwF9zD/mmJMxVYHtY/tAlgzkUwN+DNSNton TuahPPo0zN79CYmOje9+63/f1DT7xtGlabxr96cma4XC0bzPTdJt1COOv3gPwiRES6Pq XrpA== X-RZG-AUTH: ":O2kGeEG7b/pS1FS4THaxjVF9w0vVgfQ9xGcjwO5WMRo5c+h5ceMqQWZ3yrBp+AVdIIwXjneEe9k=" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Original-Received: from himinbjorg.adminart.net by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 43.21 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id j020b1u82Eu9FAR (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Sun, 2 Sep 2018 16:56:09 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from lee by himinbjorg.adminart.net with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1fwTnN-0000Ul-2h; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 16:56:09 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Radon Rosborough's message of "Thu, 30 Aug 2018 17:30:34 -0600") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2a01:238:20a:202:5301::12 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229177 Archived-At: Radon Rosborough writes: >> How is it relevant whether it takes 50ms more or less to start >> Emacs? > > Because I can notice a difference of 50ms in a delay that happens very > frequently. And yes, I restart Emacs very frequently. Easily a dozen > times a day if I am doing active development on my Emacs > configuration, which happens often. Are you sure you notice a difference of 0.05 seconds? Even if, this difference adds up to 0.6 seconds over a day, i. e. over 16 hours, when you start Emacs a dozen times. That means within a period of 57600 seconds, you notice a difference of 0.6 seconds, which is 0.001%. Seriously? >> Is that even within the error margin of the measurements? > > Sure, there's some variation (although usually less than 150ms). But > the mean value going down by 50ms is equally valuable regardless of > the variance. Are you sure you notice a difference of 0.05 seconds when the variance is around 0.15 seconds anyway? >> I just keep Emacs running on my server in a tmux session. > > I know that works for you (and many others), but it doesn't work for > me. The reason it doesn't work for me is that I develop very actively > on my Emacs configuration. This means that Emacs needs to be restarted > frequently to avoid outdated configuration from causing problems > (which, yes, can be worked around easily by evaluating code in the > current session -- but it's a lot easier to just restart and wait half > a second, with no thought required). Ok, keeping it running won't work for you. > The Emacs server also has some big usability problems for me (not > bugs, but just things that make me personally prefer not to use it). > Firstly, the mode line highlighting is shared between all sessions, > and doesn't behave in the way one might expect if one is used to > launching Emacs sessions directly. Oh, I didn't mean the Emacs server; I can just use Emacs in a tmux session and a terminal, connecting with ssh to the server. > Secondly, it's not easy to share an Emacs server between graphical and > terminal sessions -- so I'd need to run two servers, and the problem > of having Emacs servers with outdated configuration gets twice as bad. ssh -Y server emacsclient -nc emacsclient -nw How is this difficult? >> you can't keep up with me anyway ;P > > Fair enough. My configuration loads and quits a tty frame in 500ms, > whereas emacsclient does the same in only 100ms. For me, the usability > problems of the server are worth 400ms to avoid, since I don't pop in > and out of Emacs to edit different files, only to reload my > configuration. no fair comparison when you can't let it run How do you even measure such tiny amounts of time?