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From: "Óscar Fuentes" <ofv@wanadoo.es>
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Is Elisp really that slow?
Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 16:40:07 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <875zq9p2k8.fsf@telefonica.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 8463581c-c40f-a66a-5c9c-0995a3b45cd0@yandex.ru

Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> writes:

> On 17.05.2019 12:36, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>>> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
>>> Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 11:54:50 +0300
>>>
>>> Vim is consistent.

That was not my recollection when I learned it, nor is my impression
when I use it daily as an Evil user and as an occasional "true vim"
user.

I mean, vim has certain rules that work consistently, but not everything
that vim can do is subject to consistent rules. The ":" interface, for
instance. And even on the supposedly consistent interface there are
surprising details such as dw giving different results than vwd.

>> So is Emacs.  Inconsistencies in key bindings are rare exceptions in
>> Emacs.  Even the tutorial makes the point of explaining the rules for
>> consistent keybindings in basic editing commands.
>
> In the basics, sure. But I wouldn't still be using Emacs if it only
> provided basics.
>
> We pride ourselves on being more than just an editor. But the more
> features a program provides, the more important it is to have a
> logical common structure and similar underlying principles under all
> those features. Or how else is a person supposed to remember how to
> use all of them?

I doubt anybody is interested on using all of Emacs features. Not even
10% of them. Consistence for consintence's sake is useless. On every
case (and Emacs is many editors within an editor) there are local
optimums and those should prevail over global consistence.




  parent reply	other threads:[~2019-05-17 14:40 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 298+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-05-14 23:54 Is Elisp really that slow? Ergus
2019-05-15 11:57 ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-15 13:06 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-15 13:25   ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-15 13:30     ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-15 14:18       ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-15 14:45         ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-15 15:14           ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-15 15:39             ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-15 15:51               ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-15 16:05                 ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-15 16:07                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-15 16:05                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-15 16:12                   ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-15 16:15                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-15 20:23                       ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-15 20:30                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-15 15:42             ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-15 17:29               ` Drew Adams
2019-05-15 19:38                 ` Ergus
2019-05-15 19:53                   ` Drew Adams
2019-05-15 20:09                     ` Ergus
2019-05-15 23:24                       ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-15 20:46             ` Ergus
2019-05-15 23:30               ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-15 23:12             ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-15 19:47           ` Ergus
2019-05-15 19:45         ` Ergus
2019-05-15 15:18     ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-15 15:34       ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-15 15:51         ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-15 17:30           ` John Yates
2019-05-15 19:29             ` Ergus
2019-05-15 20:15   ` Ergus
2019-05-15 20:21     ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-15 20:57       ` Ergus
2019-05-15 21:00         ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-15 21:17           ` Ergus
2019-05-17 11:09             ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-15 15:07 ` Uniformity (was: Is Elisp really that slow?) Stefan Monnier
2019-05-15 15:24   ` Uniformity Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-15 15:45     ` Uniformity Stefan Monnier
2019-05-15 19:58   ` Uniformity (was: Is Elisp really that slow?) Ergus
2019-05-18 23:51   ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-15 15:14 ` Is Elisp really that slow? Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-15 15:40   ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-15 16:14     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-15 16:23       ` Tadeus Prastowo
2019-05-15 16:27         ` tomas
2019-05-15 17:00         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-15 20:09           ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-16 13:12             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-16 13:40               ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-16 14:06                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-15 21:09       ` Ergus
2019-05-16 14:12         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-16 16:14           ` Ergus
2019-05-16 17:46             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-16 20:23               ` Ergus
2019-05-16 20:50                 ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-16 22:46                   ` Ergus
2019-05-16 23:19                     ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-28 21:08                     ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-28 21:50                       ` Drew Adams
2019-05-17  1:28                   ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-05-17  2:26                     ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-17  4:05                       ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-05-17  6:08                         ` Ergus
2019-05-17  9:21                           ` tomas
2019-05-17 14:01                             ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-17 14:16                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-17 14:50                                 ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-17 18:19                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-17 19:23                                     ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-17 20:51                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-17 16:37                                 ` tomas
2019-05-17 16:50                                   ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-17 17:05                                     ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-17 18:11                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-17 18:16                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-17 18:14                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-30 12:09                               ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-25 16:48                                 ` Jean Louis
2019-05-29  4:58                           ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-17 13:46                         ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-29  4:26                         ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-17  5:52                       ` Ergus
2019-05-17  9:01                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-17 12:35                           ` Ergus
2019-05-17 13:13                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-17 13:22                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-17 13:39                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-17 15:07                                   ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-18 15:41                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-17 15:39                                   ` Ergus
2019-05-17 15:47                                     ` Noam Postavsky
2019-05-17 15:48                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-17 19:24                               ` Ergus
2019-05-17 20:12                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-19 13:38                                   ` Ergus
2019-05-19 13:42                                     ` Noam Postavsky
2019-06-06  3:24                                     ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-05  6:05                                   ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-05  4:44                                 ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-06 21:06                                   ` Xavier Maillard
2019-06-07 19:01                                     ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-31 15:50                               ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-31 17:57                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-07 18:46                                   ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-02 10:49                                 ` Stefan Huchler
2019-06-02 19:16                                   ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-06-02 22:49                                     ` Stefan Huchler
2019-06-07 18:55                                     ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-07 18:53                                   ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-17 14:21                             ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-17 15:02                             ` Drew Adams
2019-05-17 16:29                           ` Stefan Huchler
2019-05-17 17:19                             ` Ergus
2019-06-05  2:29                               ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-04 22:29                             ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-30  3:30                           ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-17 14:12                         ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-17  8:54                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-17  9:36                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-17 11:09                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-17 12:04                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-17 12:56                               ` Ergus
2019-05-17 13:31                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-17 15:03                                 ` Drew Adams
2019-06-04  1:27                                   ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-31 19:03                                 ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-01  8:17                                   ` Jean Louis
2019-06-07 18:49                                     ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-17 13:17                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-17 13:35                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-17 13:43                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-17 14:36                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-18 16:54                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-18 17:17                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-18 22:43                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-18 23:54                                             ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-19  0:24                                               ` 조성빈
2019-05-19  5:24                                                 ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-19 15:18                                                   ` Stefan Huchler
2019-05-19 18:40                                                     ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-20  6:47                                                       ` tomas
2019-05-20 14:57                                                         ` Drew Adams
2019-05-20 15:28                                                         ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-06-06  5:16                                                           ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-21 12:19                                                         ` Van L
2019-05-23 20:01                                                     ` Robert Thorpe
2019-05-23 23:05                                                       ` Stefan Huchler
2019-05-24 14:40                                                         ` Robert Thorpe
2019-05-25  0:07                                                           ` Stefan Huchler
2019-05-25 10:54                                                             ` Robert Thorpe
2019-06-06  6:02                                                       ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-06  0:16                                                     ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-06  0:08                                                   ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-06  0:06                                                 ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-19  2:40                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-31 21:04                                       ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-31 15:05                               ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-17 14:40                             ` Óscar Fuentes [this message]
2019-06-02  2:00                               ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-19 18:35                           ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-19 19:23                             ` 조성빈
2019-05-20  6:53                             ` tomas
2019-06-06  5:03                             ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-11 13:06                             ` Ergus via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-11 13:37                               ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-06-12  1:08                                 ` Ergus via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-30 21:30                           ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-30 21:25                         ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
     [not found]                       ` <<20190517055202.ted62gt6hqcip7xt@Ergus>
     [not found]                         ` <<83mujlbgjh.fsf@gnu.org>
2019-05-17 15:03                           ` Drew Adams
2019-06-04  1:20                             ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-04  1:50                               ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-28 23:16                       ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-17  9:05                     ` tomas
2019-05-28 21:54                     ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-17  8:47                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-17 15:22                     ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-17 18:28                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-17 19:55                         ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-06-04  1:41                           ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-04  1:38                         ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-04  1:37                       ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-31  3:36                     ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-17  8:55                   ` tomas
2019-05-17 15:02                     ` Drew Adams
2019-05-31  4:52                       ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-27 14:30                   ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-29  5:02                     ` Xavier Maillard
2019-06-07 18:40                       ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-17  6:24                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-30 17:58                   ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-25  8:22                 ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-25  9:05                   ` 조성빈 via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-25  5:14               ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-25  4:42           ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-25  6:31             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-07 18:34               ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-07 20:21                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-19  0:03         ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-19  8:16           ` Van L
2019-05-19 10:35             ` 조성빈
2019-05-19 12:48               ` Van L
2019-05-19 13:13                 ` Ergus
2019-06-06  2:54                   ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-19 13:00               ` Ergus
2019-05-19 14:57                 ` 조성빈
2019-06-06  3:08                   ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-19 13:05               ` Ergus
2019-05-21 12:00                 ` Van L
2019-06-06  3:20                   ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-06  0:52               ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-06  0:53               ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-19 14:32             ` Drew Adams
2019-05-21 12:09               ` Van L
2019-06-06  0:43             ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-06  2:12               ` Drew Adams
2019-05-23 20:16           ` Robert Thorpe
2019-06-07 18:23             ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-08 20:12               ` Robert Thorpe
2019-06-09 13:37                 ` Tomas Nordin
2019-06-09 13:50                   ` tomas
2019-06-10 22:55                     ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-12  9:16                       ` [offtopic] " Van L
2019-06-12  9:28                         ` tomas
2019-06-12 11:31                           ` Van L
2019-06-12 11:44                             ` tomas
2019-06-14  4:12                           ` Xavier Maillard
2019-06-14  7:07                           ` tomas
2019-06-12 11:16                         ` [offtopic] " Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-06-12 13:28                           ` Van L
2019-05-16 23:31   ` Emanuel Berg
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2019-05-16  1:32 Ergus
2019-05-22  7:13 ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-16  1:19 Ergus
2019-05-20 11:32 ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-02 21:40 Why is Elisp slow? Ergus
2019-05-02 23:39 ` 조성빈
2019-05-03  0:44   ` Ergus
2019-05-10 13:14     ` Van L
2019-05-10 13:22       ` Michael Heerdegen
2019-05-11  0:38         ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-11  7:32           ` Is Elisp really that slow? (was: Why is Elisp slow?) tomas
2019-05-11  7:42             ` 조성빈
2019-05-11  7:57               ` tomas
2019-05-11 23:09                 ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-12  7:54                   ` tomas
2019-05-12  9:46                     ` 조성빈
2019-05-12 14:21                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-12 14:45                         ` Is Elisp really that slow? Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-12 15:28                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-12 15:46                             ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-12 17:20                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-12 18:37                                 ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-12 18:53                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-13  1:44                                     ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-12 21:18                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-12 22:22                                     ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-14 13:39                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-14 15:09                                         ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-13  0:57                                     ` Samuel Wales
2019-05-13 12:37                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-13 14:23                                         ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-13 14:33                                         ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-14  8:24                                           ` tomas
2019-05-14 13:21                                             ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-14 14:44                                               ` tomas
2019-05-15 11:25                                                 ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-15 12:05                                                   ` tomas
2019-05-15 23:02                                                     ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-16  6:48                                                       ` tomas
2019-05-16  9:37                                                         ` Noam Postavsky
2019-05-16 11:02                                                           ` tomas
2019-05-23 14:23                                                             ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-24  1:33                                                               ` Van L
2019-05-16 13:31                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-23 14:28                                                         ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-23 14:54                                                           ` Drew Adams
2019-05-23 14:55                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-06  5:18                                                             ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-16 14:45                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-25  4:53                                                     ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-13  1:52                                     ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-13  1:35                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-12 21:01                               ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-13  1:27                             ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-13 14:38                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-13 15:00                                 ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-13 15:25                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-14 11:54                                     ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-14 16:21                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-14 17:05                                         ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-14 18:30                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-15 11:27                                             ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-15 14:51                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-16 23:19                                                 ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-17  6:41                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-13 15:02                                 ` John Yates
2019-05-13 15:14                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-13 22:40                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-14  6:27                                 ` Paul W. Rankin
2019-05-14 13:10                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-13 15:42                               ` Van L
2019-05-17 15:17                           ` Ken Goldman
2019-06-04  1:36                             ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-08  0:26             ` Is Elisp really that slow? (was: Why is Elisp slow?) Samuel Wales
2019-06-08  8:52               ` tomas
2019-06-08 21:00                 ` Samuel Wales
2019-06-08 21:14                   ` tomas
2019-06-08 21:44                     ` Is Elisp really that slow? Óscar Fuentes
2019-06-08 23:29                       ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-11  4:10                       ` Xavier Maillard
     [not found] <<878sv7sp3r.fsf@telefonica.net>

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