From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#22448: 24.5; `M-x customize' link "See als Manual" Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2019 02:08:53 +0100 Message-ID: <875zjx6cbe.fsf@marxist.se> References: <0aa12033-8a98-48f3-b7af-096e5a074520@default> <6ef27028-02ce-479b-8111-fa1baeb5f723@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="34008"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Xue Fuqiao , 22448@debbugs.gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 06 02:10:27 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iS9q6-0008ku-UC for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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Tue, 05 Nov 2019 20:10:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2019 01:10:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22448 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 22448-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22448.157300254632034 (code B ref 22448); Wed, 06 Nov 2019 01:10:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 22448) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Nov 2019 01:09:06 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39312 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iS9oo-0008Kc-AL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2019 20:09:06 -0500 Original-Received: from host.gofardesign.uk ([208.79.239.190]:52303) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iS9om-0008K3-5T for 22448@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2019 20:09:05 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=marxist.se; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=K01ZCFR07r+u7N6kn6kCDHWjr2TCCA3F2RpvjcpddMQ=; b=RoAg2slRw7VEvQi5qVE/vZAp/n QCbyYVjoivmm5N5EvO0Z//VCZs1HwYaiC+6xTlKivjIrCwARjZwvysPdAqVrgekVhqK9WgkM1tczs 9uT3XnFJtSNr+1isVLBjAzdSQaMEgwCfXDEgFa7btWVmiAEYk8PvKOyXLcdwX9N36dRE=; Original-Received: from h-70-69.a785.priv.bahnhof.se ([155.4.70.69]:55446 helo=localhost) by host.gofardesign.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1iS9od-0003Zg-KT; Tue, 05 Nov 2019 19:08:56 -0600 In-Reply-To: <6ef27028-02ce-479b-8111-fa1baeb5f723@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 23 Jan 2016 17:10:27 -0800 (PST)") X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.gofardesign.uk X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - marxist.se X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: host.gofardesign.uk: authenticated_id: stefan@marxist.se X-Authenticated-Sender: host.gofardesign.uk: stefan@marxist.se X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:171004 Archived-At: Drew Adams writes: >> > The link near the top of the buffer says See also Manual. >> > Clicking that link should take you to the part of the Emacs >> > manual that presents Customize. Instead, it takes you to >> > the top of the manual. That's not helpful at all. >> >> There are three links to the manual, actually. Please see the attached >> screenshot. The "See also" link is for the top-level `Emacs' group. > > The other two links are fine. The link I reported is wrong. > Even if it is intended to be relevant to group `Emacs', it is > wrong. Group `Emacs' is a Customize group. The link does not > take you anywhere that provides information about Customize > groups in general or any Customize group in particular, let > alone the `Emacs' group. > > In addition, there already is an "Emacs manual" link to the > top of the manual. There is no need for another. > > The problematic link should just be removed, if there is no > doc specific for group `Emacs' to which it could be linked. > It does not help, but confuses, as it is now. Thank you Drew for your attention to detail. Please find some of my observations below. I don't think this link causes any confusion. On the contrary, it is a clear indication to users that they should read the Emacs manual if they want help with customizing Emacs. This adds more information than the blanket "For help using this buffer, see Easy Customization in the Emacs manual." which is already at the top of every Custom buffer. It is therefore fully suitable, and indeed directly helpful, for the first entry in the M-x customize interface (the emacs group). So I would suggest to keep the link as is, and consequently close this bug as wontfix. But perhaps others will have an opinion here, too. Best regards, Stefan Kangas