From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: ASSI Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Ligatures Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 07:43:00 +0200 Message-ID: <875zcs32fv.fsf@Otto.invalid> References: <20200517124125.000013a4@web.de> <97C7EAB7-10AB-4702-ABC8-EB6C1C50ABDB@gnu.org> <20200517165953.000044d2@web.de> <83lflqblp0.fsf@gnu.org> <83ftbybio3.fsf@gnu.org> <83zha69xs2.fsf@gnu.org> <83367x9qeq.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="96511"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (gnu/linux) Cc: pipcet@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue May 19 07:43:46 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jav2X-000P0g-Cf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 07:43:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46414 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jav2W-0001hd-Dm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 01:43:44 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35232) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jav22-0001Gp-9S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 01:43:14 -0400 Original-Received: from vsmx011.vodafonemail.xion.oxcs.net ([153.92.174.89]:32742) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jav20-0002nm-Eb; Tue, 19 May 2020 01:43:13 -0400 Original-Received: from vsmx003.vodafonemail.xion.oxcs.net (unknown [192.168.75.197]) by mta-5-out.mta.xion.oxcs.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1876E59D21D; Tue, 19 May 2020 05:43:08 +0000 (UTC) Original-Received: from Otto (unknown [91.47.56.99]) by mta-7-out.mta.xion.oxcs.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id AFC65539B3D; Tue, 19 May 2020 05:43:01 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <83367x9qeq.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 18 May 2020 19:08:45 +0300") X-VADE-STATUS: LEGIT Received-SPF: pass client-ip=153.92.174.89; envelope-from=Stromeko@nexgo.de; helo=vsmx011.vodafonemail.xion.oxcs.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/19 01:43:08 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x (no timestamps) [generic] X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250878 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > On second thought, I think I misunderstood you. If the font that is > used shows "ffi" as a _single_ glyph =EF=AC=83, and LibreOffice indeed > highlights parts of this glyph, then I'd like to know how it does > that, and how far does this capability extend. I mean, what does it > do with ligatures like ae, displayed as =C3=A6 -- does it highlight the > common vertical stroke for both parts? The only program I ever used that I remember doing this (a WYSIWYG TeX editor for DOS, natch) temporarily broke the ligature while you were moving the cursor inside. It looked a bit strange and was slightly distracting if you were just moving the cursor without trying to edit it, but otherwise did the job well. I expect that fonts that make extensive use of ligatures have information on where the ligatures can be broken and exactly how to display the parts in that case, although I wouldn't be surprised if that information is not very reliable even when just considering latin family scripts. > And what about "st", displayed as =EF=AC=86 -- this has a curved "hand" > connecting s and t -- to which of the 2 does it belong for the > purposes of highlighting? There's also "hv" displayed as =C6=95, let alo= ne > "fs" displayed as =E1=BA=9E and "fz" displayed as =C3=9F. The origin of this ligature has no general consensus AFAIK, but if you read older (facsimile) printed literature from around 1800 it becomes pretty obvious that the typeface evolved from a combination of long s (mainly used inside a word) and round s (used at the end). The origin of "sz" in that place is even more complicated to figure out, but it seems (to me anyway) that this was driven by a desire to preserve the distinction to double s / "ss" when using typefaces that didn't have the proper glyphs for the various types of "s" previously available in Fraktur. Neither "fs" nor "fz" should ligature into "=C3=9F" (which is a proper glyph these days and no longer a ligature, although you are still allowed to break it into either "ss" or "sz" when using typefaces that don't support it, like most versalia). Regards, Achim. --=20 +<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+ Samples for the Waldorf Blofeld: http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#BlofeldSamplesExtra