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From: ASSI <Stromeko@nexgo.de>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: pipcet@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Ligatures
Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 07:43:00 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <875zcs32fv.fsf@Otto.invalid> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <83367x9qeq.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 18 May 2020 19:08:45 +0300")

Eli Zaretskii writes:
> On second thought, I think I misunderstood you.  If the font that is
> used shows "ffi" as a _single_ glyph ffi, and LibreOffice indeed
> highlights parts of this glyph, then I'd like to know how it does
> that, and how far does this capability extend.  I mean, what does it
> do with ligatures like ae, displayed as æ -- does it highlight the
> common vertical stroke for both parts?

The only program I ever used that I remember doing this (a WYSIWYG TeX
editor for DOS, natch) temporarily broke the ligature while you were
moving the cursor inside.  It looked a bit strange and was slightly
distracting if you were just moving the cursor without trying to edit
it, but otherwise did the job well.

I expect that fonts that make extensive use of ligatures have
information on where the ligatures can be broken and exactly how to
display the parts in that case, although I wouldn't be surprised if that
information is not very reliable even when just considering latin family
scripts.

> And what about "st", displayed as st -- this has a curved "hand"
> connecting s and t -- to which of the 2 does it belong for the
> purposes of highlighting?  There's also "hv" displayed as ƕ, let alone
> "fs" displayed as ẞ and "fz" displayed as ß.

The origin of this ligature has no general consensus AFAIK, but if you
read older (facsimile) printed literature from around 1800 it becomes
pretty obvious that the typeface evolved from a combination of long s
(mainly used inside a word) and round s (used at the end).  The origin
of "sz" in that place is even more complicated to figure out, but it
seems (to me anyway) that this was driven by a desire to preserve the
distinction to double s / "ss" when using typefaces that didn't have the
proper glyphs for the various types of "s" previously available in
Fraktur.  Neither "fs" nor "fz" should ligature into "ß" (which is a
proper glyph these days and no longer a ligature, although you are still
allowed to break it into either "ss" or "sz" when using typefaces that
don't support it, like most versalia).


Regards,
Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+

Samples for the Waldorf Blofeld:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#BlofeldSamplesExtra



  parent reply	other threads:[~2020-05-19  5:43 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 145+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-05-17 10:41 Unify the Platforms: Cairo+FreeType+Harfbuzz Everywhere (except TTY) Julius Pfrommer
2020-05-17 14:09 ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-17 14:30   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-17 15:06     ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-17 15:56       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-17 16:50         ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-17 17:06           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-17 14:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-17 14:59   ` Julius Pfrommer
2020-05-17 15:55     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-17 16:28       ` Pip Cet
2020-05-17 17:00         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-17 18:50           ` Pip Cet
2020-05-17 19:17             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-18 16:08               ` Ligatures (was: Unify the Platforms: Cairo+FreeType+Harfbuzz Everywhere (except TTY)) Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-18 16:45                 ` tomas
2020-05-18 16:49                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-18 17:05                 ` Ligatures Stefan Monnier
2020-05-18 17:18                   ` Ligatures Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-18 19:19                     ` Ligatures Pip Cet
2020-05-18 19:25                       ` Ligatures tomas
2020-05-18 19:41                         ` Ligatures Pip Cet
2020-05-18 20:20                           ` Ligatures tomas
2020-05-18 19:33                       ` Ligatures Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-18 19:44                         ` Ligatures Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-05-19  2:25                           ` Ligatures Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-19  2:44                             ` Ligatures Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-05-19 13:59                               ` Ligatures Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-19 14:35                                 ` Ligatures Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-05-19 15:21                                   ` Ligatures Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-19 15:44                                     ` Ligatures Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-05-19 16:15                                       ` Ligatures Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-19 15:36                                 ` Ligatures Tassilo Horn
2020-05-19 16:08                                   ` Ligatures Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-19 16:14                                   ` Ligatures Stefan Monnier
2020-05-19  3:47                             ` Ligatures Stefan Monnier
2020-05-19  4:51                               ` Ligatures Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-05-18 19:38                       ` Ligatures Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-05-19 14:55                         ` Ligatures Pip Cet
2020-05-19 15:30                           ` Ligatures Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-05-19 15:52                             ` Ligatures Pip Cet
2020-05-18 17:24                   ` Ligatures tomas
2020-05-18 17:41                     ` Ligatures Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-18 19:07                       ` Ligatures tomas
2020-05-18 19:17                         ` Ligatures Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-18 20:33                     ` Ligatures Stefan Monnier
2020-05-18 17:31                 ` Ligatures (was: Unify the Platforms: Cairo+FreeType+Harfbuzz Everywhere (except TTY)) Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-05-18 17:39                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-18 19:01                     ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-05-18 19:15                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-18 19:18                       ` tomas
2020-05-18 20:37                       ` Ligatures Stefan Monnier
2020-05-18 21:59                       ` Ligatures (was: Unify the Platforms: Cairo+FreeType+Harfbuzz Everywhere (except TTY)) Alan Third
2020-05-19 13:56                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-19 14:39                           ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-05-19 21:43                             ` Pip Cet
2020-05-20  1:41                               ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-05-20  2:07                               ` Ligatures Stefan Monnier
2020-05-20  7:14                               ` Ligatures (was: Unify the Platforms: Cairo+FreeType+Harfbuzz Everywhere (except TTY)) tomas
2020-05-20 15:18                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-20 17:31                                 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-05-20 18:01                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-20 18:33                                     ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-05-20 18:49                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-20 18:53                                         ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-05-20 19:02                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-20 23:19                                   ` Ligatures Stefan Monnier
2020-05-21 10:01                                 ` Ligatures (was: Unify the Platforms: Cairo+FreeType+Harfbuzz Everywhere (except TTY)) Pip Cet
2020-05-21 14:11                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-21 16:26                                     ` Pip Cet
2020-05-21 19:08                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-21 20:51                                         ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-05-21 21:16                                           ` Pip Cet
2020-05-22  6:12                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-22  9:25                                               ` Pip Cet
2020-05-22 11:23                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-22 12:52                                                   ` Pip Cet
2020-05-22 13:15                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-22 13:29                                                       ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-05-22 14:30                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-22 14:34                                                           ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-05-22 19:01                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-22 19:33                                                               ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-05-22 19:44                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-22 20:02                                                                   ` Clément Pit-Claudel
     [not found]                                                                     ` <83mu5z171j.fsf@gnu.org>
2020-05-23 14:34                                                                       ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-05-23 16:18                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-23 16:37                                                                           ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-05-22 13:56                                                       ` Pip Cet
     [not found]                                                         ` <83lflj16jn.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                                           ` <AF222EA0-FE05-4224-8459-2BF82CE27266@vasilij.de>
     [not found]                                                             ` <834ks7110w.fsf@gnu.org>
2020-05-23 11:24                                                               ` Vasilij Schneidermann
2020-05-23 13:04                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                                                           ` <83eerb145r.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                                             ` <CAOqdjBeef8Fa596raEyBUwv0Zr+41LSiYvHW39EdoaXpyxCXVw@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                                                               ` <831rnb0zld.fsf@gnu.org>
2020-05-23 12:36                                                                 ` Pip Cet
2020-05-23 14:08                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-23 15:13                                                                     ` Pip Cet
2020-05-23 16:34                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-23 22:38                                                                         ` Pip Cet
2020-05-24 15:33                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-26 18:13                                                                             ` Pip Cet
2020-05-26 19:46                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-27  9:36                                                                                 ` Pip Cet
2020-05-27 17:13                                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-27 18:42                                                                                     ` Pip Cet
2020-05-27 19:19                                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-23 17:32                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-23 21:29                                                                         ` Pip Cet
2020-05-24 15:19                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-23 12:47                                                                 ` Ligatures Stefan Monnier
2020-05-23 13:10                                                                   ` Ligatures Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-23 13:45                                                                     ` Ligatures Stefan Monnier
2020-05-23 14:12                                                                       ` Ligatures Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-23 13:36                                                                   ` Ligatures 조성빈
2020-05-23 14:15                                                                     ` Ligatures Stefan Monnier
2020-05-23 14:37                                                                   ` Ligatures Pip Cet
2020-05-22 11:44                                           ` Ligatures (was: Unify the Platforms: Cairo+FreeType+Harfbuzz Everywhere (except TTY)) Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-22 13:26                                             ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-05-22 14:29                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-22 14:32                                                 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-05-22 19:00                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-21 21:06                                         ` Pip Cet
2020-05-22  6:06                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-22  9:34                                             ` Pip Cet
2020-05-22 11:33                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-19 20:26                           ` Alan Third
2020-05-19 10:09                   ` Trevor Spiteri
2020-05-19 14:22                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-19  5:43                 ` ASSI [this message]
2020-05-19  7:22                   ` Ligatures tomas
2020-05-19  7:55                     ` Ligatures Joost Kremers
2020-05-19  8:07                       ` Ligatures tomas
2020-05-19 10:17                         ` Ligatures Yuri Khan
2020-05-19 14:26                           ` Ligatures Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-19 19:00                             ` Ligatures Yuri Khan
2020-05-19 10:43                         ` Ligatures Werner LEMBERG
2020-05-19 10:48                           ` Ligatures tomas
2020-05-19 14:18                   ` Ligatures Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-19 14:52                     ` Ligatures Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-19 15:11                       ` Ligatures Pip Cet
2020-05-19 15:36                         ` Ligatures Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-19 16:16                           ` Ligatures Pip Cet
2020-05-19 16:41                             ` Ligatures Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-19 17:00                             ` Ligatures Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-17 18:28       ` Unify the Platforms: Cairo+FreeType+Harfbuzz Everywhere (except TTY) Julius Pfrommer
2020-05-17 18:45         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-17 22:28         ` chad
2020-05-18 22:08         ` Alan Third

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