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From: "Óscar Fuentes" <ofv@wanadoo.es>
To: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: master 289000e: Merge branch 'feature/native-comp' into trunk
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2021 22:02:49 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <875z08n79y.fsf@telefonica.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: YIb0XbV9HzAZ86ib@ACM

Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> writes:

>> C code is opaque to native-comp and puts a hard limit on how much it can
>> optimize Elisp. Thus I hope that in the future more and more code will
>> be moved from C to Elisp.
>
> Does that make sense?  To move time critical code from fast C to slow
> Lisp, and then optimise it back, partly?

Calling C is a bit slow, but that's not the worst problem it introduces.
When a call to a C function is made, the native-comp optimizer must
throw away information it learned about the Elisp code it was compiling,
hence reducing optimization opportunities. Furthermore, the C function
must know how to many cases while only one or a few of them make sense
at any given call site.

Consider this extreme example:

(defun foo (x)
  (+ x 12))
  
(defun the-answer-p (x)
  (or (and (stringp x) (string= x "42"))
      (and (numberp x) (= x 42))
      (and (bufferp x) ... etc)))

(let ((a 30))
  (if (the-answer-p (foo a))
      (message "The answer is %d" (foo a))
    (message "We remain ignorant")))

The optimizer knows that the argument passed to `foo' is `a', which
holds the constant `30'. It also knows that the value returned by `foo'
only depends on its argument, so it can simply replace those calls to
`foo' with (+ 30 12), and then with its result: 42. Then, on the call to
`the-answer-p', the optimizer knows that the argument is the numeric
constant 42, hence the second condition is true, so it can replace
`(the-answer-p (foo a))' with `true', and then colapse the `if' to just

(message "The answer is %d" 42)

If `foo' and `the-answer-p' were implemented on C, none of this
optimizations could be possible, because the optimizer would know
nothing about the inner workings of those functions.

I'm no Elisp expert, so the above might not fully translate to what is
achievable in practice by native-comp, but the general point holds.

>> And other areas can benefit too: one thing which IMO has lots of
>> potential is to native-compile regexps.
>
> Again, how would that work?  Regexps are already handled in C.  How
> could native compilation of Lisp add anything?

Not native compilation of Elisp, but native compilation of the regexps:
a function is generated that implements the regexp. Instead of passing
the regexp to the engine, the function is called.




  reply	other threads:[~2021-04-26 20:02 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 47+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <20210425182503.25223.81072@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org>
     [not found] ` <20210425182508.6CC7C2094D@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org>
2021-04-25 18:36   ` master 289000e: Merge branch 'feature/native-comp' into trunk Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.
2021-04-25 18:40     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-25 18:59       ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.
2021-04-25 20:25         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-25 18:45     ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-04-25 20:03     ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-04-25 20:14       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-25 21:55         ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-04-26 11:40           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-26 13:21             ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-04-26 13:45               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-26 14:54                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-04-26 15:12                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-26 17:02                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-04-26 17:13                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-04-26 17:25                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-28 11:34                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-04-28 12:26                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-28 12:32                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-04-28 13:01                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-28 19:09                               ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.
2021-04-26 15:33                   ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-04-26 15:58                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-26 16:30                       ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-04-26 17:11                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-04-26 20:02                       ` Óscar Fuentes [this message]
2021-04-28 14:07                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-04-28 15:10                           ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-04-26 15:37                   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-04-26 16:06                   ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.
2021-04-26 17:05                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-04-25 21:48     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-04-25 22:41     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-25 22:57     ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2021-04-26 16:16       ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.
2021-04-26 13:03     ` wilde
2021-04-26 13:18     ` Minimal recommended version of gcc/libgccjit for native-comp (was: master 289000e: Merge branch 'feature/native-comp' into trunk) wilde
2021-04-26 15:58       ` Minimal recommended version of gcc/libgccjit for native-comp Stefan Monnier
2021-04-26 16:16         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-26 16:32           ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.
2021-04-26 16:54             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-26 20:53               ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.
2021-04-27  3:52               ` Richard Stallman
2021-04-26 16:18         ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.
2021-04-26 16:12       ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.
2021-04-27 14:21         ` wilde
2021-04-27 16:35           ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.

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