From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eric Abrahamsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs as a translator's tool Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2021 09:50:43 -0800 Message-ID: <875yrga5qk.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> References: <871rn35lqc.fsf@mbork.pl> <87zh9r45ad.fsf@mbork.pl> <87h7vz2m5g.fsf@ebih.ebihd> <87zh9qr67n.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <3DBA2692-28A0-4AC3-B884-78763A9C7B16@traduction-libre.org> <87tuzyr474.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87h7rwtov7.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87pmpriwvk.fsf@mbork.pl> <87k0fz6pkb.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <877dbyjr5a.fsf@laposte.net> <87zgot6ejj.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87czlpi1bh.fsf@mbork.pl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="24709"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:y72gobZefreD7NdRIHXzi0tciIs= Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 22 18:59:25 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n05tb-0006D5-Vg for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 22 Dec 2021 18:59:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43748 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n05tb-0007ju-1H for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 22 Dec 2021 12:59:23 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55852) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n05mr-0003Xz-8r for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Dec 2021 12:52:25 -0500 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:34506) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n05mp-0001H8-8X for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Dec 2021 12:52:24 -0500 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n05mj-00070a-8m for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Dec 2021 18:52:17 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:135021 Archived-At: Marcin Borkowski writes: > On 2021-12-21, at 18:41, Eric Abrahamsen wrote: > >> Kevin Vigouroux via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor >> writes: >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> At first, personally, I would have started from a large number of >>> existing features that I could have reused. >>> >>> For the design, I would rather point towards XLIFF 2 [2], precisely >>> because fundamental ideas have already been formulated and implemented. >> >> Part of the problem is that "translation" ends up meaning very different >> things in different contexts. I mostly translate fiction or other long >> chunks of prose, but occasionally film scripts and subtitles. The > > Out of curiosity: what tools do you use? (I translate subtitles a lot, > and I used subed-mode and mpv.) When I do subtitles it's pretty much always for a film production company, which you'd think would mean latest technologies and industry standards, exciting stuff, but in fact means they email me a Word document, and expect me to email them a Word document back :( If I'm lucky, I then get a round of editing with them, but that means going into the studio and sitting behind the editor and saying "that one goes by too fast". :( :( Translating fiction for publishing houses is the same: Word documents, track changes. So basically I'm pasting the text into a text-mode or org-mode buffer, doing my translation, and then exporting to odt/docx. It's very depressing. >> requirements there are very different (and much more fluid) than >> something like XLIFF, which seems firmly aimed at localization. I can't >> imagine a major-mode that would be practically useful for both >> localization and fiction translation. > > Agreed. Actually, a global minor mode might be a better fit. It could > support e.g. linking between two buffers ("source" and "translation") > and glossary support. Right. Jean-Christophe mentioned TMX, which makes a lot of sense, as its an external storage format, and usable no matter what format your actual translation is in. And it's good for collaborative translations, though I don't do that. A minor mode for that would be perfect, and that's probably what I should have written. Then another minor mode for linking and following source and translation, as you say, but not tied to Org. org-translate dumps segmentation control characters into the files, an approach which I guess is still usable for any plain-text file format. Maybe there are better ways, though. I don't know how you would manage correspondences between a PDF and text file, for instance. Lastly, if I ever magically become a better programmer than I am, I would like a minor mode that keeps the translation in a VC repository, and lets me do multiple drafts of various sections, keeping those drafts in version control branches. Then there's a visual indicator in the buffer that this paragraph has multiple versions, a command to display all those versions side-by-side, and something to choose one of them eventually (merging the draft branch to master under the hood). Some day! Eric