From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Renaming eglot -- or at least add an alias? Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2022 13:34:14 +0100 Message-ID: <875yh1nl15.fsf@gmail.com> References: <83pmfdduix.fsf@gnu.org> <86sfk7hse3.fsf@gmail.com> <8735c6tq6t.fsf@posteo.net> <87r0zq2uea.fsf@posteo.net> <867d1hub5n.fsf@gmail.com> <87r0zpb1z6.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27920"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Tim Cross , emacs-devel@gnu.org, Richard Stallman To: Philip Kaludercic Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 03 14:38:57 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ofKin-00072a-Ma for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2022 14:38:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54484 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ofKim-0001wT-3v for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2022 08:38:56 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53394) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ofKdC-00076O-H3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2022 08:33:12 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x432.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::432]:35535) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ofKdA-0006Zl-DY; Mon, 03 Oct 2022 08:33:10 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x432.google.com with SMTP id u10so16387619wrq.2; Mon, 03 Oct 2022 05:33:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=WmkeVVjiQjXn57MMnDLX+Wg0MzcqY3JzdOcZ8vb8RrU=; b=fZB+hHweORLsCH1EHTI/BMFy7tQegs/oyB1Pfd9tYejPbpIUFDPm54GbyXHPUEk6aJ XdEOqRhXQMJx9c3/BlcNaNdJOOFfebrZH8w5uwz0n2tFXpnRa8PQf0Y2GoZxsm6pwEtw owxQmiz1gjPf2toxFmFhYvsFMj/zFH/xJBYvHS3c8UudzDDiH1seIUuyqhjNXXIcbmiR nAqbiNCTbWJQvTrkQS5nLSjhWVDkSO/tWPKVpS3ZeaCD6LLaoD1qROiKWFif+MKiw68O LOdkSfb9OQrVIdY1kxFvDGzuKxfPAnSuw6uTVy1/mFoG2eIJt3bT8ka4OkNzcqD01iF5 Ndkg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date; bh=WmkeVVjiQjXn57MMnDLX+Wg0MzcqY3JzdOcZ8vb8RrU=; b=Eqgk87rkMxeEHjCK4cK9JZujee+RYTWjljTEsYQbVJJ2nlUw2oyUoSqDy8x7JRaDwf D9ZXPfhMXr/y+BpBwYR0vFbHr3LfVwx/orRN1iQs/5ksLAQfWUmR3qYny/AjQxlbMjqH l3Bc/IgVNoOpfUZHDBPlLJO4qsFGAoxMpz8ylke4q5AXrhX5UN+ug2ddN5QNp5430RXG scnyTSJ0k7hSfQYm//mASglnGB6wp9e7EgU8joopA3RWrymPdWlfxpPc7C2bUIMUVyeC 12eWGL5uuDceU95TTn5HDwwHzt05FFqxCiVTKsFwP4ssm1CIZS8NG+0ZpaD6npTQNsc/ YIQw== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf3kKRq5dFLQryZr58JRVBqMg8gVy1IHNMXO7A6BD0xH9wRyqMF/ pJcoGQ5BfNj/+owZgTToKswG8vgUI7E= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM7BAvPmdTOtzC2Zjv++aC6GAY+22pIIShk/KwagngCSf8UhRyFcxx/RTUTmhGth/GTM1CeOoQ== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:6d0a:0:b0:22e:3f3a:5cdf with SMTP id e10-20020a5d6d0a000000b0022e3f3a5cdfmr1964833wrq.156.1664800385373; Mon, 03 Oct 2022 05:33:05 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from krug (87-196-72-203.net.novis.pt. [87.196.72.203]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l18-20020a05600c1d1200b003a601a1c2f7sm17015275wms.19.2022.10.03.05.33.04 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 03 Oct 2022 05:33:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87r0zpb1z6.fsf@posteo.net> (Philip Kaludercic's message of "Mon, 03 Oct 2022 11:06:37 +0000") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::432; envelope-from=joaotavora@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x432.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:296740 Archived-At: Philip Kaludercic writes: > > That being said, there are at least two points that should be considered > before 29.1 is released: > > - The rebinding of `display-local-help'. I don't get why this is > done. display-local-help is a generic at-point documentation facility. It comes with a default binding in the Emacs global map. M-x eldoc does not have a default binding (yet). d-l-help is also a much poorer version of what ElDoc is nowadays. Contrary to ElDoc, there is no easy way for Eglot to link d-l-help it up to LSP-provided documentation. It's not fully accurate to say that Eglot rebinds `display-local-help`, at least not permanently. Rather, for the duration of Eglot's tenure over the buffer(s), some settings known to work are applied including binding the 'C-h .' key to an ElDoc command. A demanding user can override any of these settings. Read https://github.com/joaotavora/eglot/blob/master/MANUAL.md#overriding-eglots= -choices > - The custom mode-line modification instead of eglot being just another > minor mode item. The information that Eglot displays in the mode-line is important to signal if/how it is managing the buffer. It could be grouped with the other minor modes, but I felt that it would take up too much space and look akward in that position, so I moved it to the side. > > user should never completely forget that there is a language server > > connection currently tied to some major modes of a project, and managing > > those buffers. > I am curious to hear why you think this should be. Is it not preferable > to make use of the tools the environment is providing instead of falling > back on approximate heuristics like grepping for where a variable > occurred or using TAGS-files for definitions and completion? Of course, but I said nothing to the contrary. I merely meant that it is good for Eglot's user to remember that this enriched capability and consistency is supported _transiently_ for a well-defined subset of the buffers being worked on, and that potentially a third-party helper (the language server program) must be installed to support more buffers. There is a very broad applicability of Emacs to many types of uses and very many language servers that may or not be available (probably won't be by default). The user should not assume that just by launching the Emacs editor, the superior capability will be available all the time, because that requires a piece that is not (and cannot easily be) bundled with Emacs. You may, if you want, make an Emacs distribution with a narrower focus on a specific application where the former is true. See https://portacle.github.io/, which brands itself as a "Common Lisp IDE". There Emacs is bundled with SLIME and SLY turned on by default. > We enthusiasts often overestimate the readiness of more casual users > when it comes to remembering commands, bindings, packages, etc. I think you underestimate users' ability (and maybe also your own?) to remember a single 5 letter name. Eglot has few commands, few customization variables, no bindings. It's as minimalist as I and those who helped could make it. For a beginner, M-x eglot is all there is to it. Jo=C3=A3o