From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Yoni Rabkin Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Distribution statistics for ELPA and EMMS Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2023 15:42:38 -0400 Message-ID: <875y466jbl.fsf@rabkins.net> References: <875y6mzj4n.fsf@rabkins.net> <2f28dcca-3f8b-eb7b-95ec-1867c0d1eaf4@alphapapa.net> <4da4d2f6-2197-3727-674e-034c353207c5@alphapapa.net> <87o7hy9kzz.fsf@posteo.net> <87fs3agf84.fsf@disroot.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="14691"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Akib Azmain Turja Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 19 21:43:45 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qigdL-0003ej-Q0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 19 Sep 2023 21:43:44 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qigcR-0008MX-Id; Tue, 19 Sep 2023 15:42:47 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qigcP-0008MJ-0j for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Sep 2023 15:42:45 -0400 Original-Received: from smtprelay0013.hostedemail.com ([216.40.44.13] helo=relay.hostedemail.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qigcN-0004oV-5a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Sep 2023 15:42:44 -0400 Original-Received: from omf14.hostedemail.com (a10.router.float.18 [10.200.18.1]) by unirelay05.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 528CE405E5; Tue, 19 Sep 2023 19:42:41 +0000 (UTC) Original-Received: from [HIDDEN] (Authenticated sender: yoni@rabkins.net) by omf14.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D805034; Tue, 19 Sep 2023 19:42:39 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <87fs3agf84.fsf@disroot.org> (Akib Azmain Turja's message of "Wed, 20 Sep 2023 01:00:59 +0600") X-Ethics: Use GNU X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: D805034 X-Rspamd-Server: rspamout02 X-Stat-Signature: 4ehuqjsaeur6buecb1c5y97k38cxrznp X-Session-Marker: 796F6E69407261626B696E732E6E6574 X-Session-ID: U2FsdGVkX1+ipc9zPew9Ux65QMFqLdtQio0SJHNEyAA= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rabkins.net; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s=dkim1; bh=wLejW7743lw2/KGEfvXM36I2/cLHnn7st8D6yFsSQTY=; b=qVTkPAGM6d5SSdbQnXBtZCk9bVTMzTny0Au/yZY6FM6JR5g6J2wSLiVGN0HElvXdx7kziTnhHC3hl0Du5c9EJmCx3AOzRXhIeJxWa16OVSacSTpv3MGmvrjh9OiARLH5wqt2i57KuaOeIkJ42cp31kvnuKvUCCwZyiFoBGFr6nE= X-HE-Tag: 1695152559-82417 X-HE-Meta: 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 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=216.40.44.13; envelope-from=yoni@rabkins.net; helo=relay.hostedemail.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:310794 Archived-At: Akib Azmain Turja writes: > Philip Kaludercic writes: > >> Adam Porter writes: >> >>> [I just noticed this message from a few months ago.] >>> >>> On 7/16/23 21:25, Richard Stallman wrote: >>>> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] >>>> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] >>>> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] >>>> We could have two options for downloading, one which is "for a real >>>> user" and one which is "for periodic testing". >>>> The only difference would be that the former increments the user >>>> download count and the latter does not. >>> >>> I like this idea, but it seems like it would be hard to enforce. It >>> could even go the other way, i.e. have Emacs send a query string or >>> header when installing a package manually, which could be logged and >>> used to filter the download logs later. But even that might be harder >>> than it seems, e.g. if I call a command like: >>> >>> emacs --eval "(package-install FOO)" >>> >>> ...to non-interactively install a package into a local directory for >>> testing, how far, and in how many places, would some kind of flag need >>> to be propagated to end up in the server's logs? >> >> There is an inherent unreliability in these kinds of statistics that has >> to be accepted. The question is therefore are issues like these >> significant or would they skew the results. This has to be considered >> under a false-positive and a false-negative approach, depending on what >> we want to measure. > > How are these numbers going to be useful? This can't be a measure of > "popularity." Agreed. We haven't defined popularity (nor should we), so we can't measure it. But we can most certainly measure the number of downloads. I would be interested in this number for Emms (and to a lesser degree for rt-liberation.) Moreover, the data will change over time, and I'll find observing those changes interesting as well. -- "Cut your own wood and it will warm you twice"