From: Pascal Bourguignon <spam@mouse-potato.com>
Subject: Re: Making Emacs more newbie friendly
Date: 19 Mar 2005 16:45:30 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <874qf7zlk5.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: opsnvd2glkp52o26@home-ca12fabbc0
PT <mailshield.gg@mailnull.com> writes:
> On 18 Mar 2005 22:57:17 +0100, Pascal Bourguignon
> <spam@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>
> > PT <mailshield.gg@mailnull.com> writes:
> >
> >> I'm sure I'm not the first to come up with this idea, but I think it
> >> really would help if emacs had a newbie-mode which made it easier for
> >> newbies to get acquainted with it.
> >
> > C-h t
>
> That's exactly what I meant. The key bindings shown in the tutorial
> are leftovers from a world when there were no arrow keys on keyboards.
>
> I have some colleagues using VIM and Emacs and none of them use the
> standard keys for movement, all of them use the arrow keys.
Arrow keys are not standard. There are keyboard without arrow keys.
There are keyboards where the arrow keys are too small. There are
keyboards where the arrow keys are far from the home row.
The users of emacs keep using C-f instead of -> because C-f is right
under the fingers while -> requires arm movement and back. Same for
most other keys you call "standard".
> I've been using emacs for 6+ years, customized it inside out, wrote
> minor modes for it and yet I too use the arrow keys, not M-f and
> M-b and such.
>
> I may sound like a heretic, but I don't think a newbie should learn
> new keybindings for cursor movement.
1- Probably, the theory of emacs key binding should be put in the tutorial.
2- Since you can customize emacs, why don't you write the
ms-window-newbie-user-minor-mode yourself? And while you're at it,
write a macintosh-newbie-user-minor-mode and
an amiga-newbie-user-minor-mode and etc... On these systems, the
"standard" keys are not what you think!
> > M-x viper RET
>
> VI is not a more usual editor. KEdit is. Notepad is.
No. MS-Word is the usual editor.
> > Better put:
> >
> > alias newbie-emacs=nano # or pico
> >
> > in your ~/.bashrc
>
> Sigh. When some people sees how I work with Emacs they want to learn
> it. The idea is to relieve the initial pain of meeting Emacs the
> first time, so that they don't give it up in disgust, before they get
> to know it better.
I meant that the best way to leave the newbie state is to start
learning and using the new tool instead of trying to bind it to make
it look like the old tool.
Now, here is an idea:
I learned the emacs keybinding using TextEdit.app on NeXTSTEP!
(long before I started to use emacs).
Perhaps what you should do/ask is a NotePad.exe accepting the default
emacs key bindings.
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/
Grace personified,
I leap into the window.
I meant to do that.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2005-03-19 15:45 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 123+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2005-03-18 21:12 Making Emacs more newbie friendly PT
2005-03-18 21:57 ` Pascal Bourguignon
2005-03-19 5:40 ` PT
2005-03-19 7:57 ` rgb
2005-03-19 9:51 ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 10:46 ` Steinar Børmer
2005-03-19 11:01 ` David Kastrup
2005-03-20 0:42 ` Steinar Børmer
2005-03-19 20:16 ` Miles Bader
[not found] ` <mailman.4427.1111265353.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-19 20:53 ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 10:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <mailman.4380.1111231068.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-19 14:23 ` PT
2005-03-19 15:08 ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 15:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-03-19 10:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-03-19 14:34 ` nfreimann
2005-03-19 15:49 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2005-03-19 16:13 ` nfreimann
[not found] ` <mailman.4406.1111250911.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-19 19:12 ` Shawn Betts
2005-03-19 19:35 ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 21:00 ` Miles Bader
[not found] ` <mailman.4435.1111267700.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-19 22:42 ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 15:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-03-19 12:42 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2005-03-19 14:56 ` PT
2005-03-19 15:37 ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 17:45 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2005-03-19 18:07 ` PT
2005-03-19 18:15 ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 18:24 ` PT
2005-03-19 18:34 ` David Kastrup
2005-04-09 18:01 ` Nathan Hess
[not found] ` <mailman.4378.1111230698.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-19 13:41 ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-19 14:31 ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 16:04 ` Lee Sau Dan
2005-03-20 12:33 ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-20 17:33 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2005-03-21 7:39 ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-21 10:07 ` Joe Corneli
2005-03-21 11:27 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2005-03-22 11:25 ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-21 11:54 ` Klaus Straubinger
2005-03-21 12:37 ` David Kastrup
2005-03-20 12:27 ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-20 12:47 ` Jason Rumney
2005-03-21 18:30 ` Drew Adams
2005-03-19 15:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-03-19 17:09 ` Stefan Monnier
2005-03-20 12:42 ` Brian Elmegaard
[not found] ` <mailman.4399.1111247782.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-20 12:39 ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-20 20:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <mailman.4504.1111351877.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-20 21:05 ` David Kastrup
2005-03-21 8:11 ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-21 19:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <mailman.4626.1111436194.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-22 11:33 ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-19 14:52 ` PT
2005-03-19 15:14 ` David Hansen
2005-03-19 15:33 ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 16:00 ` PT
2005-03-19 16:22 ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 16:57 ` PT
2005-03-19 17:16 ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 17:55 ` PT
2005-03-19 18:03 ` David Kastrup
2005-03-20 12:52 ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-20 17:44 ` David Kastrup
2005-03-20 21:49 ` Alan Mackenzie
2005-03-22 11:46 ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-22 13:09 ` David Kastrup
2005-03-23 7:29 ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-21 8:17 ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-19 18:01 ` PT
2005-03-19 20:45 ` Miles Bader
2005-03-20 17:43 ` Alan Mackenzie
2005-03-19 18:05 ` Shawn Betts
2005-03-19 18:15 ` PT
2005-03-20 17:51 ` Alan Mackenzie
2005-03-19 17:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-03-19 23:16 ` Pascal Bourguignon
2005-03-20 11:49 ` Steinar Børmer
2005-03-20 13:06 ` Floyd L. Davidson
2005-03-19 16:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-03-19 18:16 ` Shawn Betts
2005-03-19 23:34 ` Pascal Bourguignon
2005-03-20 0:45 ` David Kastrup
[not found] ` <mailman.4404.1111249572.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-20 11:51 ` Steinar Børmer
2005-03-20 16:31 ` ken
[not found] ` <mailman.4485.1111338015.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-20 23:35 ` Floyd L. Davidson
2005-03-21 4:44 ` Sean Richards
2005-03-21 11:00 ` Floyd L. Davidson
2005-03-22 20:33 ` Sean Richards
2005-03-19 15:45 ` Pascal Bourguignon [this message]
2005-03-19 15:54 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2005-03-19 17:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <mailman.4413.1111254615.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-19 23:33 ` Pascal Bourguignon
2005-03-20 4:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-03-20 9:07 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2005-03-20 11:30 ` nfreimann
2005-03-20 12:16 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
[not found] ` <mailman.4474.1111322832.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-20 18:04 ` Joe Bush
2005-03-21 8:23 ` Brian Elmegaard
[not found] ` <mailman.4470.1111319220.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-20 13:01 ` Floyd L. Davidson
2005-03-20 17:37 ` David Kastrup
[not found] ` <mailman.4443.1111294657.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-20 15:29 ` Pascal Bourguignon
2005-03-20 15:58 ` Joe Corneli
[not found] ` <mailman.4479.1111335526.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-20 20:33 ` Jochen Küpper
2005-03-20 23:50 ` Joe Corneli
2005-03-20 12:59 ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-20 17:45 ` David Kastrup
2005-03-21 8:19 ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-19 18:42 ` Shawn Betts
2005-03-19 19:27 ` David Kastrup
2005-03-20 6:55 ` Joe Corneli
2005-03-18 22:11 ` Peter Dyballa
2005-03-19 17:17 ` Jason Rumney
2005-03-19 18:10 ` Floyd L. Davidson
2005-03-22 1:59 ` Cristian Gutierrez
2005-03-21 9:56 ` Mathias Dahl
2005-03-21 19:23 ` Peter K. Lee
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2005-03-21 12:53 nfreimann
2005-03-21 15:22 ` Joe Corneli
[not found] <mailman.4566.1111411378.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-21 13:21 ` Klaus Straubinger
2005-03-21 21:44 ` Miles Bader
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