From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Chong Yidong Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: when emacs 22.1 release will ready? Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:20:44 -0400 Message-ID: <874pmx51o3.fsf@stupidchicken.com> References: <259495020704291337s35dd584fi3b7ef1dd511b11d4@mail.gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177946798 10191 80.91.229.12 (30 Apr 2007 15:26:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 15:26:38 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Leo Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 30 17:26:36 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HiXlp-0000Ka-RV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:26:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiXs1-00088N-Ph for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:32:57 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HiXrx-00084S-Sq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:32:53 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiXrx-00083P-D9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:32:53 -0400 Original-Received: from south-station-annex.mit.edu ([18.72.1.2]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HiXlk-0000Wy-NP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:26:28 -0400 Original-Received: from central-city-carrier-station.mit.edu (CENTRAL-CITY-CARRIER-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.72]) by south-station-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id l3UFQMtI029404; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:26:23 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from outgoing-legacy.mit.edu (OUTGOING-LEGACY.MIT.EDU [18.7.22.104]) by central-city-carrier-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id l3UFKjWk026305; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:20:46 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from localhost (SYDNEYPACIFIC-SIX-FORTY-SIX.MIT.EDU [18.95.7.135]) ) by outgoing-legacy.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.4) with ESMTP id l3UFKjuq002405; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:20:45 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from cyd by localhost with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1HiXgD-0001RQ-00; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:20:45 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Leo's message of "Mon\, 30 Apr 2007 11\:09\:23 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.99 (gnu/linux) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-detected-kernel: Solaris 9.1 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70410 Archived-At: Leo writes: > ----- Kim F. Storm (2007-04-30) wrote:----- > >> + So it's been over two and a half months, and while it's certainly >> + not the longest release cycle ever, it still dragged out a bit >> + longer than I'd have hoped for and it should have. As usual, I'd >> + like to thank Adrian (and the people who jumped on the entries >> + Adrian had) for keeping everybody on their toes with the regression >> + list - there's a few entries there still, but it got to the point >> + where we didn't even know if they were real regressions, and >> + delaying things further just wasn't going to help. >> >> With a similar release procedure for Emacs, Emacs 22.1 had been >> released in 2004, and 23.4 would be ready for release next month. > > Long term release hurts every project. The huge success of the kernel > again shows the only thing to make RMS change is to do something better > than him like what XEmacs did in the past and what Ubuntu did to Debian. > > I wonder why would people tolerate his dictatorship in the `free' > software realm. To be fair, I think RMS' style of maintaining software, with long release cycles and insistence on fixing all reported bugs, was probably a good approach back in the 80s, when there was only a handful of users with access to email to report bugs. Nowadays, of course, the increase in the number of users with email and the fact that Emacs CVS is now publicly available means that there will always be a constant trickle of bug reports giving you something to fix. Insisting---as RMS does---on fixing all reported bugs, even those that are not serious and not regressions, now means that you will probably never make a release. There is also a positive feedback loop: RMS' style for maintaining Emacs drives away valuable contributors who feel their effects will never be rewarded with a release (and a release is, after all, the only reward you get from contributing to Emacs). Sadly, RMS seems determined to "stay the course", instead of adopting strategies that have been proven to work in other software projects.