From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul R Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: delete-selection-mode Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 22:03:01 +0200 Message-ID: <874p9vx9fu.fsf@gmail.com> References: <004a01c8a1a0$7215cdd0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <87hcdxz9zr.fsf_-_@jurta.org> <87ve2cfk9x.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <200804201931.m3KJVO4X008875@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <858wz8ux2w.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <480BA779.2080507@gmail.com> <853apguv0s.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <480BAD5C.4090204@gmail.com> <85prskte96.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <480BB8C0.4020303@gmail.com> <85abjnu5ss.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <480C31B9.6060900@gmail.com> <480CC3AD.1050403@gmail.com> <85mynnxhuh.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <480CD2D1.1020003@gmail.com> <878wz7xdgb.fsf@gmail.com> <85bq43xcq9.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1208808254 27546 80.91.229.12 (21 Apr 2008 20:04:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:04:14 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, cyd@stupidchicken.com, "Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)" , emacs-devel@gnu.org, juri@jurta.org, ams@gnu.org, dann@ics.uci.edu, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, drew.adams@oracle.com To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 21 22:04:46 2008 connect(): Connection refused Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Jo2Fg-0001lm-O9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 22:04:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Jo2Ey-0005A6-BB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:03:52 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Jo2ES-0004z1-En for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:03:20 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Jo2EM-0004wJ-Ay for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:03:19 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Jo2EL-0004vv-V6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:03:14 -0400 Original-Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.184]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Jo2EL-0006Lc-5P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:03:13 -0400 Original-Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id f5so630528nfh.26 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 13:03:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:to:cc:subject:references:from:date:in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=wro/P4QeCcnW/2oXz+ZcqjtpwkaHQ0fVTGg/e6FS93k=; b=OWLE4zd9GBRl1ExDg0laQXIILaCCH/7N8dHMl8zrLXmhOCaspCEroCqHb/N1ZPxz1k18OUNVXexkNrZj6aToT2IF2PFBKLNvAf/RQwOinc82+3uThINpXH77aKGOzfuzQXRnZEvg/3wwb2Zh9XXGB8V9y+LpP/3BAnhQOmusbIU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=to:cc:subject:references:from:date:in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type; b=Q1ALUa03nvfts4//lv1fyWKkiTCT0lYTAfaGaLOz25pjSVY7Pips/LUh3PL1lFL38+4UQIdUwCZQHVwzUuohEnwvLo+Lihz9Rh8M6X3I7kYrZADs99YU3iQJdtny4hqnjbhRycqTIk8BId81Fis3SHBzcW5w2tvyI92OknDOvIs= Original-Received: by 10.86.61.13 with SMTP id j13mr14008898fga.26.1208808182658; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 13:03:02 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from ubuT42 ( [82.242.132.111]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d13sm6443409fka.7.2008.04.21.13.03.01 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 21 Apr 2008 13:03:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <85bq43xcq9.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> (David Kastrup's message of "Mon\, 21 Apr 2008 20\:51\:58 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.1 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:95694 Archived-At: > As an example: I can explain Emacs' general mouse cut/copy/paste > interface in 4 lines of text: > > Single/double/triple left mouse clicks mark character/word/line start > respectively of the region. Dragging or single right mouse click marks > the other end, double right mouse click deletes the region. In either > case, middle mouse pastes the previous region contents. The "incremental" nature of this interface makes the trial-error methodology very efficient in this case. IOW, people can understand immediatly, and without refering to huge documentation of which they aren't even aware of existence. We agree on this particular case. > After all: new users might give up because they don't realize that what > fails to make them more efficient than when using other editors is only > a default setting, not inherent to the emacs program itself. Yes. But I am not trying to argue what is the most efficient way to work, I'm leaving this decision to each emacs user feeling. I just want newcomers to feel sufficiently welcome to stay a bit and see. They will then have plenty of time to discover how to increase the productivity of their tool. If you had a shop at the first floor of a building, would you build some stairs with 1 meter high steps each, just because you know its doable with lots of training, and incidentatly more efficient than many many tiny 20cm high steps, like in every other place ? -- Paul