From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Lost antialias? Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:52:10 +0900 Message-ID: <874p7n1jb9.fsf@catnip.gol.com> References: <485230EB.9070203@alice.it> <48546807.8010406@alice.it> <87abhmgmko.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87abhkndo9.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87skv7d6sa.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87lk0z1w3e.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87ej6rpqh0.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87abhf1mxe.fsf@catnip.gol.com> Reply-To: Miles Bader NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1214024002 18951 80.91.229.12 (21 Jun 2008 04:53:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 04:53:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Chong Yidong , angelo.graziosi@alice.it, Kenichi Handa , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 21 06:54:05 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1K9v6u-0008HH-FF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 06:54:00 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34775 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K9v65-0003Rj-MH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 00:53:09 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K9v5M-0002vX-8S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 00:52:24 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K9v5L-0002uW-9J for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 00:52:23 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=39072 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K9v5K-0002uG-Rr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 00:52:22 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp12.dentaku.gol.com ([203.216.5.74]:33447) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1K9v5F-0007Du-Ae; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 00:52:17 -0400 Original-Received: from 218.231.109.31.eo.eaccess.ne.jp ([218.231.109.31] helo=catnip.gol.com) by smtp12.dentaku.gol.com with esmtpa (Dentaku) id 1K9v5A-0005tk-EB; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:52:12 +0900 Original-Received: by catnip.gol.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E7A232F3D; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:52:10 +0900 (JST) System-Type: i686-pc-linux-gnu In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Sat, 21 Jun 2008 00:22:30 -0400") Original-Lines: 52 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV GOL (outbound) X-Abuse-Complaints: abuse@gol.com X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:99584 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: >>>> What font should we use for variable-pitch? Bitstream Vera Sans? >>> I'd put "Sans-Serif" first, so as to re-use fontconfig's default. >>> Similarly for fixed-pitch (not sure if that's "mono" or "monospace" or >>> what). > >> Fontconfig's generic handling seems aimed more at finding something >> "usable" rather than something "good", and the ordering seems almost >> random (Bitstream Vera comes before Dejavu, even though the latter is >> more or less a better version of the former, and on my system "Sans >> Serif" resolves to "Kochi Gothic", apparently simply because I have that >> installed). > > Hmm... so what do other apps use? I think we should aim to use whatever > other applications use by default, since there's a better chance that > this has been correctly setup (and if not, at least we won't be worse > than those other apps and we can just say "sorry, not our fault"). > > E.g. what does Firefox use? (or Vim ;-)? Actually I was mistaken about "Kochi Gothic" -- it seems to use it because I have LANG set to "ja_JP". If I use: LANG=C HOME=/tmp fc-match "Serif" then I get "Bitstream Vera Serif" (etc for "Sans", and "Mono"). So I guess the choice is "reasonable", except for the ordering of Vera before Dejavu. I don't know the reason for that offhand, but I imagine perhaps it's because Vera is used as a general default these days, and Dejavu is something still installed as an optional package. Using "Mono", "Sans", or "Serif" as families all return similar results, so I suppose they would be reasonable defaults. Most of the substitution seems to be done by config files in /etc/fonts, and I'm not sure how things are on other systems; I'm using Debian unstable. [Whether the above changing of default for LANG=ja_JP is really desirable or not, I dunno, but I guess it's going to yield more familiar results when mixing CJK with ascii characters. Anyway, as you say, "not our problem".] -Miles -- Mayonnaise, n. One of the sauces that serve the French in place of a state religion.