From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim X Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: basic question: going back to dired Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 14:38:56 +1000 Organization: Rapt Technologies Message-ID: <874p6dqmxr.fsf@lion.rapttech.com.au> References: <4884DC7F.6060406@gmail.com> <819feff4-76e3-4bf8-9ece-7b47f099efc2@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <87hcaiiatp.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> <86r69laodc.fsf@timbral.net> <87k5fbzcfv.fsf@lion.rapttech.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1217047330 2140 80.91.229.12 (26 Jul 2008 04:42:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:42:10 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 26 06:43:00 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KMbcR-0007BZ-14 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 06:42:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48727 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KMbbX-0000lK-5w for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 00:42:03 -0400 Original-Path: news.stanford.edu!headwall.stanford.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!flpi089.ffdc.sbc.com!prodigy.net!news.astraweb.com!border2.newsrouter.astraweb.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:4ba+lD26g+3tAEqmdZou7JInxAw= Original-Lines: 37 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 705da235.news.astraweb.com Original-X-Trace: DXC=X<:8NDAWmKb\; 1IogBA]HfL?0kYOcDh@jIGb]mONgOijR8J33anb9@oRTFYYW29Y\j@R\285fQ[Ud Original-Xref: news.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:160603 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:55951 Archived-At: "Juanma Barranquero" writes: > On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 14:36, Tim X wrote: > >> But don't forget its not just a comp sci term. In fact, comp sci >> borrowed it from "normal" english. In my comp sci days, also in the 80s, >> it still had the more generalised term that fits with how emacs uses >> it. > > As would have lots of other terms. That's what I'm saying: "buffer" > seems like the perfect match for Emacs > data-structures-for-temporary-storage-under-whatever-name because > we've been using it that way for 25+ years, not because it is the > only, or more fitting, or more appropriate term. > > This conversation (not specifically with you Tim, I'm talking about > the thread) goes nowhere. I said that I'm not proposing to change > anything, but at the same time I *don't* believe there's anything > sacred on the terms used in Emacs today. They are the best just > because of long use and long familiarity. Which does not necessarily > apply to newbies. > Which is not that far from my position. Most of my comments are related to Xah and others who believe it should be changed. I'm not arguing it shouldn't be changed because its sacred or anything. My point is that I a) don't believe its as bad as some like Xah argue and b) nobody has come up with any alternatives that don't lose us more than they gain and c) I'm not convinced that changing all the terminology would actually change the number of new users who give up and don't bother because I don't believe the terminology is the main thing that makes new users give up. Tim -- tcross (at) rapttech dot com dot au