From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: please make line-move-visual nil Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 15:13:32 +0900 Message-ID: <874ovlfucz.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <4A0C402C.7060804@slugfest.demon.co.uk> <20090514181712.GA2413@muc.de> <7C757F28-A6B2-48FB-A8AC-CF2E1728FA68@gmail.com> <87bppug6gc.fsf@escher.local.home> <877i0ifnvp.fsf@escher.local.home> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1242454063 2552 80.91.229.12 (16 May 2009 06:07:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 06:07:43 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stephen Berman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat May 16 08:07:36 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1M5D3W-0001CF-VC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 16 May 2009 08:07:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36013 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1M5D3W-0000MR-G6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 16 May 2009 02:07:34 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1M5D3S-0000MM-Is for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 16 May 2009 02:07:30 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1M5D3O-0000M9-PA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 16 May 2009 02:07:30 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=47614 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1M5D3O-0000M6-L6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 16 May 2009 02:07:26 -0400 Original-Received: from mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.223]:50275) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1M5D3O-0006jN-3e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 16 May 2009 02:07:26 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CA771535AC; Sat, 16 May 2009 15:07:21 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 766AC1A4583; Sat, 16 May 2009 15:13:32 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: <877i0ifnvp.fsf@escher.local.home> X-Mailer: VM 8.0.12-devo-585 under 21.5 (beta28) "fuki" 83e35df20028+ XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:110915 Archived-At: Stephen Berman writes: > (3) It should be avoided/ > (4) It should be avoided/ > Do you find no acceptability contrast between (3) and (4)? No. As they are identical, they are identically unacceptable. By that, I mean that in educating my daughter (who is a native Japanese speaker), I would *never* let that pass, not even in casual conversation. The only acceptable way to terminate those strings is with an immediate period, but then "it" cannot be an expletive. I agree that in terms of intelligibility it is somewhat better to follow an expletive "it" with the infinitive rather than the gerund. As a matter of style, of course that phrasing is abysmal. There is no need whatsoever for an expletive "it" to express that idea in English.