From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: user-controlled load-path extension: load-dir Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 07:15:50 -0600 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <874o7buneh.fsf@lifelogs.com> References: <87ei6mz24h.fsf@lifelogs.com> <20110306072147.GA11067@event-horizon.homenet> <871v2i525h.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87oc5lx607.fsf@lifelogs.com> <874o7ds37p.fsf@lifelogs.com> <4D7726E8.5090206@swipnet.se> <4D772988.4070209@gmail.com> <4D775002.8050100@swipnet.se> <874o7cjj8h.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87tyfcnon1.fsf@lifelogs.com> <871v2gjdhf.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <877hc8nk2h.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87hbbby82y.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87aah3va9n.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87oc5jo3kw.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1299763667 10078 80.91.229.12 (10 Mar 2011 13:27:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 13:27:47 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Mar 10 14:27:42 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Pxfu1-00073A-PJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 10 Mar 2011 14:27:42 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32880 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Pxfty-0003wQ-5R for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 10 Mar 2011 08:27:38 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=57357 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Pxfir-0005g9-AL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Mar 2011 08:16:10 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Pxfin-0002EC-9E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Mar 2011 08:16:09 -0500 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:47224) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Pxfim-0002E8-Vf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Mar 2011 08:16:05 -0500 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Pxfil-0001Rq-7u for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Mar 2011 14:16:03 +0100 Original-Received: from c-67-186-102-106.hsd1.il.comcast.net ([67.186.102.106]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 10 Mar 2011 14:16:02 +0100 Original-Received: from tzz by c-67-186-102-106.hsd1.il.comcast.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 10 Mar 2011 14:16:02 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 45 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-67-186-102-106.hsd1.il.comcast.net X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" User-Agent: Gnus/5.110014 (No Gnus v0.14) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:YQUTXkyce6An04C2v1hP715LmVU= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 80.91.229.12 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:137031 Archived-At: On Thu, 10 Mar 2011 16:08:15 +0900 "Stephen J. Turnbull" wrote: SJT> Ted Zlatanov writes: >> I have not advocated [automatically installing and loading code] >> and am against it; if I implied otherwise I apologize for the >> misunderstanding. el-get's *bootstrap* may reside in the load-dir, >> but all the packages it manages won't. SJT> From the maintainer's point of view, this is *not about you*. You SJT> have restrained requirements for the feature, yes. How do you propose SJT> to impose *your* restraints on *others* who want additional features, SJT> though? By making the feature an optional, off-by-default loader and nothing more. >> I view it as "I enabled the load-dir feature, maybe I should understand >> it." SJT> Again, how do you propose to get all other users to view it that way? SJT> If this is only for you, you already know how to do it. Obviously, SJT> you expect this to be used by many people. It needs to meet their SJT> expectations as well as yours, or it's a bad idea to maintain it in SJT> core. I think you're arguing that the feature will be misinterpreted and misused. I disagree and can't find a way to agree with you; I still think it's simple enough that it won't cause the kind of mismatched expectations that lead to unwanted behavior and bug reports. >> You keep insisting on holding the user's hand. SJT> No. I'm anticipating what *some* users are going to expect of it, SJT> based on experience with maintaining similar features. I wouldn't SJT> hold the user's hand in this case, I'd simply insist that the feature SJT> be provided as a package. Then helping them with their misconceptions SJT> (and statistically speaking, there will be a certain fraction of users SJT> who misunderstand) is my privilege as core maintainer, not my SJT> responsibility. Putting it in core makes it the other way around, and SJT> that will suck for Stefan and Yidong IMO. While I disagree about the consequences you think it will have, I'm proposing it before committing code exactly so the maintainers can make up their mind. I think we've both stated our case clearly at this point. Ted