From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: list-print-separator Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 10:01:17 -0500 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <874o5mml36.fsf@lifelogs.com> References: <8762qr8x23.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87vcy7mbxq.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87hb9nglen.fsf@lifelogs.com> <877haiebj9.fsf@lifelogs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1303743701 14296 80.91.229.12 (25 Apr 2011 15:01:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 15:01:41 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 25 17:01:36 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QENI7-000735-H0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 Apr 2011 17:01:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56648 helo=lists2.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QENI7-0005FF-6e for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 Apr 2011 11:01:35 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:44150) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QENI5-0005FA-BA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Apr 2011 11:01:34 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QENI4-0002el-9i for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Apr 2011 11:01:33 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:52427) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QENI4-0002ec-0D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Apr 2011 11:01:32 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QENI2-000710-Na for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Apr 2011 17:01:30 +0200 Original-Received: from 38.98.147.130 ([38.98.147.130]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2011 17:01:30 +0200 Original-Received: from tzz by 38.98.147.130 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2011 17:01:30 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 37 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.98.147.130 X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" User-Agent: Gnus/5.110016 (No Gnus v0.16) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:T0gGkwZG+X+mgNWWE4jdO7x5nTo= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 80.91.229.12 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:138736 Archived-At: On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 11:51:46 -0300 Stefan Monnier wrote: SM> Hmm... I wouldn't try to compare the speed of `print' with that of `pp' SM> since they do very different amounts of work and are implemented in SM> languages whose performance is very different, but there's clearly room SM> for improvement in pp's speed. >> I want to print out a large ELisp data structure prettily. The Gnus >> newsrc.eld, for example, or the Gnus registry hashtable. I'll use >> whatever makes it happen as fast as possible. SM> The newsrc.eld has never been pretty and it's never been a problem, SM> AFAIK. It's unreadable without newlines so you need manual fixups to look at it when things go wrong. SM> Not sure what's the "Gnus registry", so I can't comment on that. It's a large hashtable with lots of alist members. >> With my list-print-separator patch you get fast and OK-looking. >> Are you concerned it's only useful sometimes? The speed penalty is >> minor if it's not used. SM> I'd rather make `pp' faster, or if it's too difficult split it into SM> a "print-really-pretty" and "print-quickly-and-not-too-ugly". The users most likely to benefit, at least for Gnus where I have experience supporting them, are those who can't read ELisp well. They are also less likely to complain or roll their own solution. So I hope you see that this is not a "print pretty" request but a real need for any package that uses ELisp's build-in serialization. I'm concerned that your "good enough" solution will not be adopted because it will be much slower than the native `print' serialization, and optimizing it is much more work than my proposed patch of 4 lines. Ted