From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jambunathan K Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs and Java Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 16:47:55 +0530 Message-ID: <874nmza61o.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87har0onhj.wl%f@mazzo.li> <877grvpwyk.wl%f@mazzo.li> <83obl7u2fb.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1347707832 29053 80.91.229.3 (15 Sep 2012 11:17:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 11:17:12 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 15 13:17:16 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TCqN3-0004ia-3U for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 15 Sep 2012 13:17:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33379 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TCqMz-0004vt-4r for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 15 Sep 2012 07:17:05 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:53233) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TCqMu-0004vX-Dv for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Sep 2012 07:17:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TCqMt-0004LA-FZ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Sep 2012 07:17:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pb0-f41.google.com ([209.85.160.41]:50050) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TCqMt-0004Je-1U for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Sep 2012 07:16:59 -0400 Original-Received: by pbbro12 with SMTP id ro12so7848340pbb.0 for ; Sat, 15 Sep 2012 04:16:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=zcdDVNpPe6awu21svVVetHXvNsKda0qr6WBPTdl9ZQk=; b=drgcIb9aMOb/g4gCIjLPjeZv7ycRrl1tO59LNU7/nhp0+D8rkQt/ctJXQoYgM0hCLp EwJ92xIMcgXJEw8EIJdRqELPnIYGitLc3BLEk4Z6Cg9JBMZuaEtmyxGcoM7ZgYTpLaYY 048vQrFYI2aq0L+cdIhJCE20gH15TPVtWEQpLxVHWkfgr++E7EjjXap6CrRkEl6Rv5A6 HmD7dGksadruzqdEgayuhFUfXvIvX7SWLdipxQ0+UCqsSfQxdh60Xs0pN6WM0kH+eZUO Xi4fj3/aaei6S658e2nxWTPKLP1GNru7TpAaiIG2EnnRWjW+VA6lbAw62vWhmnVe/zco rw+Q== Original-Received: by 10.68.232.131 with SMTP id to3mr10266419pbc.58.1347707818195; Sat, 15 Sep 2012 04:16:58 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from debian-6.05 ([115.241.67.52]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id kj10sm2770509pbc.72.2012.09.15.04.16.55 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 15 Sep 2012 04:16:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83obl7u2fb.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 15 Sep 2012 11:15:52 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.2.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 209.85.160.41 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:86791 Archived-At: > People who want to improve Emacs support for IDE-like development > environment with modern features are encouraged to make improvements > and submit them, and generally work on improving them, rather than > whine about Emacs being "slightly better than Notepad". That kind of > attitude will never get you any closer to your goal. My feeling exactly. There is a popular saying. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth There is also a sense of entitlement that is exhibited by users. It is surprising to find this attitude even among people who are NOT NEW to FLOSS or it's mailing lists. The problem is a lack of awareness of "What the goals of a particular mode of organization is" or "How things work or what actually works in this organization"? I am using "organization" in it's broadest terms - "a voluntary association of people". I think a sense of entitlement shouldn't even be exhibited by members who make annual subscription to FSF. They have right *not* to renew their subscription if they feel that their interests are not taken care of. If people stop donating stuff - membership fees, volunteer effort, material/infrastructural stuff to FSF - then it's survival becomes difficult if not impossible (even though the goals that FSF subscribes to is needed for society in general) I think world will be a better place if people show support or reject support by concrete (strategic) action rather than voicing their feelings and opinions. (Note that voicing opinion in itself is *also* a strategic action, but one who shouts should also consider whether he is shouting alone, an empty room, a crowd etc.) If people understand how "Carrot and Stick" works and use it to further their own goals and the goals that they desire for community in general then, I believe, goodness will grow and evil will subside. Note that a single carrot or a stick would suffice to influence a single horse. But a sack of carrots or a mountain load of it is needed to influence a herd. I believe there is sufficient loyal crowd of Emacs users, I can swear that it would take enormous effort for me *NOT* to use Emacs. This irrespective of whether Emacs lacks support for stuff I badly need. --